541 street strip motor, TF 270 heads, Weiand P3690982 cross ram or???

[biomedtechguy]

I've run the gamut of intakes that have a 3x2bbl capability, along with being able to match up to Max Wedge ports.
I have been steady on wanting to use my N96 hood that is on my car, and complete the Air Grabber setup.
All roads pointed to the Indy ModMan intake w/3x2bbl top.
I have been offered a Weiand P3690982 6bbl crossram intake, and I'm having a hard time saying no, in the face of the "aluminum shoebox" ModMan.
What say you guys?

 

[Tex013]

If you want your hood you have to buy what fits under it .if the weiand is the tunnel ram 6bpack you might struggle with that , especially as you may need to increase plenum volume with 540ci . With 270 heads you are limited .
Power or looks - you have to decide

Tex

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

The Weiand is a standard port intake and will never fit under the hood.

 

[gooser]

the only way the weiand will fit is with the 4" 6pk scoop and I don't think you can use the 6pk air cleaner I've had this intake on my charger since 77

 

[biomedtechguy]

I understand that the Weiand 6bbl intake would need an A-12 style 6bbl hood scoop to work. I've tortured myself debating over this intake before.
I am going to call Wilson manifolds to see if they can make the ports match Max Wedge ports. I would be shocked if no one else has used one of these intakes and not opened up the runners to Max Wedge port size.
The Chrysler bulletin mods look like they have all been done on this intake.
The seller says he has the 3 500 CFM Holley mechanical carbs that are associated with the intake, and that they are "new". The Weiand can also be modded to accept the F&B 3x2 EFI/DPI/TB setup as well, like the Indy ModMan, but the injector bosses have to be welded in and drilled.
If I was going with the F&B setup from the get-go, the ModMan would be the best choice. I just have a fascination with the Weiand, and I think it may work better with carbs than the ModMan. What I don't know is if it's worth losing the N96 Air Grabber over, because I really like the look and function of the Air Grabber.

 

[33 IMP]

The sixpack weiand tunnel ram is the sexiest three two barrel manifold out there. It can most likely be modified to work with max wedge ports, especially if you modify for port injection. The question, which only YOU can answer, is do you want to change your hood (obviously save all the parts that go with it), and deal with the complicated tuning that supposedly comes with the weiand ram. I remember there were air dams and popsicle sticks glued into them to try and make the distribution work, but i dont know where that info is.
Maybe the solution is the fitech throttle body sixpack setup, i dont think that requires the port injection modification. Still, the mods that would have to be made to the weiand to get it to fit max wedge ports will lower the collector value of the manifold considerably. If you were willing to try to make the weiand work it would definately be an attention grabber!
I am not a fan of the mod man, but that is just me. I would sooner see the edelbrock, but i dont think that will flow enough for 541, even if it were opened up for max ports. I just dont know how well the mod man works, or if it has enough meat to be opened up to max wedge without welding.
There is always the alternative of the 240s. That would solve the intake dilemma and i dont think you would give up a huge amount of power, it would just show up at a lower rpm.

 

[Hemirunner]

Oh dear Lord.... here we go again... lol.... why don’t you buy the six pack tunnel ram, weld it up and massage it for the max wedge port, and since we’re already welding on it, add some injector bungs to it and top it off with billet throttle bodies.... it’s only money!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Oh dear Lord.... here we go again... lol....

I know...
I'm trying not to tread on anyone's upper limit of patience.
That damn Weiand intake haunts me!
I like it so much, and the ModMan is a freaking aluminum shoe box....
Having said that, I am also the #1 fan of the Air Grabber, I've already bought the hood, had it paint matched, and installed it on my car. I have some of the required parts to complete it that came off a 70 Roadrunner beyond ANY hope of repair.
As far as EFI goes, BOTH manifolds are compatible with the F&B 3x2 system, and BOTH look great setup that way, and the ModMan definitely works very well with EFI, and EFI on the Weiand fixes a lot of the inherent problems with it because the F&B system uses direct port injection, thus eliminating the fuel puddling issues.
I am going to use my Promax modded Holley carbs on whatever manifold I use, and keep the F&B EFI as a potential upgrade if I decide to do that in the future. It looks like the Weiand that I was offered, that has already been modified according to the tech bulletins, is no longer available due to a misunderstanding that frankly took me by surprise, in a manner that I am SMH about.
Thanks anyway guys.
I'm trying to stay motivated.
It looks like the ModMan is the route I'm going to go.

 

[IQ52]

Uh, isn't there a difference between how a crossram and a tunnel ram might fit under a hood? Are we using the terms interchangeably?

 

[IQ52]

With your 6-bbl desires you've kinda painted yourself into a corner. That is okay because that is what you want and it is understandable. The modman is like a tunnelram that has had it's legs cut off right at the hips. It is the only box stock thing that is going to fit your 6-bbl max wedge project. Is it a good intake manifold design? No! I've seen some pretty good engine builders at a dyno contest looking at the thing and just shaking their heads. But you can suck enough air through it to make some horsepower with 541 ci.

It is a back to the 1950's design like the twin log manifolds where we were using six Stromberg 97 carburetors.

 

[33 IMP]

How about a three deuces bolt on top ?



On an 8-71? Then you wouldn't need a hood!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Uh, isn't there a difference between how a crossram and a tunnel ram might fit under a hood? Are we using the terms interchangeably?

No, it's the only 2 manifolds that are left for me to consider, for a 3x2 w/Max Wedge ports.
I actually discovered, researched, and asked AndyF directly about a 3x2 top plate on the Indy 440-25 but he stated it too would NOT fit under my hood.
The guy w/the Weiand squirreld out, so that has come and gone, and the spell that that intake casts on me has lost its power...
Moselyme has the Weiand on a built stroker w/the F&B 3x2 EFI direct port injection system on it, but I don't know how well it has run or even if it has yet.
The damn thing is BEAUTIFUL!

I know the ModMan works great with the F&B too, and I've heard that with 3x2 carbs it works better than it looks.
It's also available new, so I can buy it when I'm ready, from a company, not "someone" I don't know.

you can suck enough air through it to make some horsepower with 541 ci.

And that's fine. I'm already going to make more power than I had originally wanted, I'm going to have a hell of a time trying to get that to the ground, and I'll have some tuning to do but I hope the builder on the dyno gets it real close to what I need for it to run in the swamp where I drive, live, and race, and that seems like a reasonable expectation.
Thanks so much for the replies!!

 

[IQ52]

See, that crossram style, that's some cool stuff if it fits maxwedge. Should be better than the Modman. The only thing I would use the Modman for is direct port injection and a blower.

 

[33 IMP]

IQ52 that weiand is an odd duck, feeds cylinders like a crossram, but has some of the height of a tunnel ram, with the carbs inline, and the distribution problems of what-the-heck? I loved it's looks when I first saw one on a sixpack super stocker, but when I heard about the tuning headaches, I forgot about it. Still sexy looking though. Expensive when you could get them new, now crazy money as a collector's item.
I bet they are easier to tune now with O2 sensors .

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

Just be done with it

 

[Hemirunner]

Just be done with it

View attachment 888366

That’s pretty cool....

 

[Budnicks]

Jesus Chrysler Bio
make up your mind

disclaimer;
I hope you take this post in the spirit it's meant for
not as an insult either...

I've endured/read all of your posts in all of these threads now
the what if & I want this but don't want to do that
& now someone really needs to say it

you want more power than the 6bbl will deliver
with either style intake
or you're just spinning your wheels
pick something & build it to work, for what you have
not just throwing $$ at something, just for the sake of it

sorry, it's tough love buddy

or do an intake & carb combo
that'll do what you want to do, live with it
quit fussing around

don't keep making excuses, or being indecisive

you'll almost never use it (the 541 with 270 afr's, 800+hp & $25k)
to it's real 7500 + RPM potential anyway (not with what you want)
especially with them tires & a 4 speed, that'll never hook
it's extremely hard to have it both ways, your cake & eat it too
when it comes to performance & racing engines,
especially with decent street manors & longevity,
especially MoPars

you know I love ya' man (in a totally non Kern Dog way)
but you need to seriously focus

you could also buy a Edelbrock STR14-6 too

it fit under a stock 69 RR hood, probably (?) under the 70 RR too

still need a shitload of mods to make any cross-ram work properly

just have your current 6bbl intake worked/ported
do the Vanke mod, be done with it
Jesus Chrysler

 

[Budnicks]

Just be done with it

View attachment 888366

I like that

 

[33 IMP]

I still say ... rotary intake!




Like Hemi-Itis!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Jesus Chrysler Bio
make up your mind

disclaimer;
I hope you take this post in the spirit it's meant for
not as an insult either...

I've endured/read all of your posts in all of these threads now
the what if & I want this but don't want to do that
& now someone really needs to say it

you want more power than the 6bbl will deliver
with either style intake
or you're just spinning your wheels
pick something & build it to work, for what you have
not just throwing $$ at something, just for the sake of it

sorry, it's tough love buddy

or do an intake & carb combo
that'll do what you want to do, live with it
quit fussing around

don't keep making excuses, or being indecisive

you'll almost never use it (the 541 with 270 afr's, 800+hp & $25k)
to it's real 7500 + RPM potential anyway (not with what you want)
especially with them tires & a 4 speed, that'll never hook
it's extremely hard to have it both ways, your cake & eat it too
when it comes to performance & racing engines,
especially with decent street manors & longevity,
especially MoPars

you know I love ya' man (in a totally non Kern Dog way)
but you need to seriously focus

you could also buy a Edelbrock STR14-6 too
View attachment 888394
it fit under a stock 69 RR hood, probably (?) under the 70 RR too
View attachment 888397
still need a shitload of mods to make any cross-ram work properly

just have your current 6bbl intake worked/ported
do the Vanke mod, be done with it
Jesus Chrysler

All good Budnicks and the rest of you who have tolerated, entertained, and endured a lot of
I've wanted to do a build for at least a year and a half, and talked about it longer than that.
I'm frustrated!
I have to do this with "big job payday" money, to stay under the radar. I had at least one big payday, and watched in disbelief as my bank account dwindled. It seems like unexpected debts came right when I had made other plans. I'm grateful I had the money, but it wasn't spent on what I had intended.
Most of the questions I ask are to learn and to have my ducks lined up for the money to be spent once and done on each part of the build. Some are to help me understand what works.
Some just keep me motivated, and that's really important to me.
Some are to have people I respect slap me and get me back on track
The aftermarket aluminum block is going to happen. For me, it's simple. My initial power goals would have me walking the edge of what I understand to be the upper limit of what a factory block can handle. Am I wrong that 6XX HP and torque is the upper limit? This I do know, if I want more, for any reason, I will have put all that money, time, and effort into a fantastic engine that is as good as it will ever get.
So I look at the aftermarket block and I see a Bulldog behemoth that is 100 pounds heavier than stock and costs $3,900. I can get an aluminum block for less than $2k more. So a lot less weight, no built in "that's all folks" limit on power like a stock block, so I can build upon my investment instead of being limited by choosing a factory block. Peace of mind because I'm not at the design limit of the block.
So that decision brings another: With the block being so conducive to big cubic inches, and I was going to do a stroker anyway, why not do a 541 instead of a "common" 505/512/528. So 541 it is.
That brings me to my final point, induction. Where the TF 240s were going to be my pick, now I have 541 cu in to feed. Seems like a perfect candidate for the TF 270s. That seems to eliminate using my current dual plane Edelbrock/Chrysler aluminum 6bbl intake. So that leaves the ModMan as the only one that will fit under my hood and have a 3x2 configuration.
Would TF 240s on a 541 be a stupid choice? Using my current dual plane 6bbl intake on the 240s?
Or going with the TF 270s, modding my dual plane to Max Wedge ports and the Vanke mod? Still too much of a choke point?
That points me back to the ModMan.
The last variable is the displacement. Am I wrong to think that a 541 is going to be more of a TORQUE monster than a 505? Wouldn't a 541 be able to use less cam lift to achieve the same power? Easier on parts because it doesn't have to work as hard or spin as fast?