6.1 Hemi Swap Engine Angle Issue?

Aron

Active Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
42
Reaction score
46
Location
Bay Area
Hey All,

I'm putting a 6.1 liter Hemi into my '68 Dodge Charger, I'm attaching a TKO500 5 speed manual trans. I took the entire week off b/c it's time to get this going at a faster pace. I lowered the body onto the motor today over the motor with the bellhousing attached, used the template, cut the hole in the floor, then attached the trans. The cut went well, only a few small adjustments needed.

Notably, the motor is attached to the K Member (using a USCT set up to cart around the K Member with motor and trans and lift up the car) - used Buchillon insulators and I think I got the engine mounts from TTi.

However, there is one thing that is concerning: The motor is canted / angled down towards the back. The car itself is level (so say the inner fender rails and the roof), but the motor is not.

Also, when I press the butt end of the level up against the rear output of the trans, it doesn't seem to be level either.

First question: Is this a problem

Second question: If yes to the above, what are some common causes of this?

Thanks for the help in advance, I love this forum, believe it or not this car started as a runner that I've had since 1997, started the tear down 10 years ago, this forum has been amazing in pointing me in the right direction throughout.

-Aron

PXL_20221024_153920844.jpg


PXL_20221024_164025958.jpg


PXL_20221024_165451517.jpg


PXL_20221024_184912043.jpg


PXL_20221024_223106088.jpg


PXL_20221025_021439134.jpg


PXL_20221025_021509606.jpg


PXL_20221024_203333930.jpg
 

70chall440

Well-Known Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,887
Reaction score
5,439
Location
Yelm, Washington
How far off are you? You didn't include a picture of the trans in the tunnel, how close is it?

If possible you need to adjust/shim up your transmission mount to level it or at least get it close. Wherever you end up you are going to have to check the driveline angle and make sure that your pinion and your trans are set up correctly or you will get some significant vibration which could lead to a number of bad results.
 

RemCharger

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
4,293
Reaction score
4,044
Location
Sask
Try putting on the oil filter.
I did one just like yours, 68, 6.1L, same results. But it ended up working just fine. Are you putting the a/c on.
 

Aron

Active Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
42
Reaction score
46
Location
Bay Area
Hey Rem and 70Chall,
Here are some photos - no oil filter yet. What I'm doing right now is just mocking everything in so I can then remove it all and send it out for paint and body. Just noticed this problem and wondering if it's a "problem" or not. I'm going to weld in a patch panel over the new hole in the trans tunnel tomorrow, sounds like I can do that without worrying too much about this until the re-install after paint and body - then make sure my angles are right?

PXL_20221025_025739208.jpg


PXL_20221025_025751466.jpg


PXL_20221025_025804395.jpg


PXL_20221025_025814595.jpg
 

Aron

Active Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
42
Reaction score
46
Location
Bay Area
Oops, and yes RemCharger - it will have an A/C. I bought an accessory kit for the front of the motor from Holly and it has an A/C set up.
 

70chall440

Well-Known Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,887
Reaction score
5,439
Location
Yelm, Washington
It looks like the trans is pretty tight in the tunnel so it may not be possible to bring the back of the trans up, so that leaves lowering the engine some.

As far as how much of a problem it might be will depend on how the car is built meaning that if you leave it, you will most likely have to adjust the pinion angle to correct it. But to answer you question, yes all this can be done after the car is painted.
 

69ChargerR/TSE

FBBO Gold Member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
474
Reaction score
215
Location
Fort Worth
What happens when you install the transmission mount? Does it still clear? or does it raise the tail shaft?
 

1970RT

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
439
Reaction score
952
Location
Oak Cliff, TX
Most powertrains have some angle backward. It helps with the rear driveline angle, and more importantly, lets gravity do its thing to get oil and ATF to drain back their respective sumps. Specifically, oil has to drain from the heads, and a little angle makes that happen more efficiently.

I’ve set angles anywhere from 2-5* depending on the application. Off-road stuff gets the upper end, while the powertrain in my charger is at 3*.

Project is looking good!

David
 

RemCharger

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
4,293
Reaction score
4,044
Location
Sask
Oops, and yes RemCharger - it will have an A/C. I bought an accessory kit for the front of the motor from Holly and it has an A/C set up.
So the new compressor isn't like factory?
We had issues with original ac and tti headers.
 

70chall440

Well-Known Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,887
Reaction score
5,439
Location
Yelm, Washington
I bought the same accessory system for my 5.7 going into my Charger, the AC compressor is moved to the top on the passenger side like it would have been originally inside of down low on the drivers side as it is in modern Mopars. In other words it should make the AC system much easier to deal with (which is why I bought it).
 

Sixpactogo

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
1,581
Location
Eau Claire, WI
I just now saw this post. As for your engine/trans angle. The closer to level you can get it is better. However, mine ended up being 4.5 degrees down. It did cause issues with the drive shaft and I needed to shim my pinion nose up 4 degrees to get the drive line parallel. I still had a slight vibration and really didn't want to cut and re-weld the perches. I bought a pair of rear shackles from Hotchkis that raised my rear 1/2" higher than the stock shackles. As for the AC compressor, I have the factory compressor that was on my 6.1. I had to ding one header tube to clear the TTI on the left side.
Nice looking install you have going!
 

Aron

Active Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
42
Reaction score
46
Location
Bay Area
Thank you all, and thanks Sixpacktogo, I've got a LONG way to go, but I am enjoying learning about it, just dying to get it on the road sooner rather than later. My motor currently sits at 4* back. Sounds like this isn't that out of the ordinary, that's good to know. As it sits, the rear of the highest part of the rear trans housing has about 1/4" clearance at the top of the tunnel - maybe a little more, which seems adequate. That's good advice on shimming the diff angle, I've heard of that - may need to do it. I like that shackle idea too, glad these threads stay up, I will come back to this when it's time to set it once and for all.

The mid-mount accessory kit from Holley that you see on it was not cheap, but it is very nice - the A/C is up high and that was one of the reasons I bought the Holley front mid mount kit - to clear the headers. Speaking of which, there are ALL manner of clearance issues with the headers (transmission bell housing contact, starter motor contact, engine mount bold contact), and I haven't even put in the power steering unit yet, need to undo it all and to that next, then lower it over again. Starting to feel like a lot of this build is revolving around fitting in the TTi headers...I avoided the coil over suspension set up for cost reasons...starting to regret it a little given how much work it is to fit these headers in properly. Oh well, not gonna reverse course now. Thanks again for all of the input and advice, I genuinely appreciate it and will be applying all of it...and will have more (rookie) questions soon.

PXL_20221025_203437289.jpg


PXL_20221025_211158231.jpg
 

chtampa

FBBO Gold Member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
4:45 AM
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
3,884
Reaction score
4,816
Location
Tampa, FL
Every tunnel I have seen has been split like a lobster on top for anything other than a 727.
 

Sixpactogo

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
1,581
Location
Eau Claire, WI
Thank you all, and thanks Sixpacktogo, I've got a LONG way to go, but I am enjoying learning about it, just dying to get it on the road sooner rather than later. My motor currently sits at 4* back. Sounds like this isn't that out of the ordinary, that's good to know. As it sits, the rear of the highest part of the rear trans housing has about 1/4" clearance at the top of the tunnel - maybe a little more, which seems adequate. That's good advice on shimming the diff angle, I've heard of that - may need to do it. I like that shackle idea too, glad these threads stay up, I will come back to this when it's time to set it once and for all.

The mid-mount accessory kit from Holley that you see on it was not cheap, but it is very nice - the A/C is up high and that was one of the reasons I bought the Holley front mid mount kit - to clear the headers. Speaking of which, there are ALL manner of clearance issues with the headers (transmission bell housing contact, starter motor contact, engine mount bold contact), and I haven't even put in the power steering unit yet, need to undo it all and to that next, then lower it over again. Starting to feel like a lot of this build is revolving around fitting in the TTi headers...I avoided the coil over suspension set up for cost reasons...starting to regret it a little given how much work it is to fit these headers in properly. Oh well, not gonna reverse course now. Thanks again for all of the input and advice, I genuinely appreciate it and will be applying all of it...and will have more (rookie) questions soon.

View attachment 1373719

View attachment 1373720
I know what you mean about the up and down with the body over the drive train. I had plenty of practice with that myself. Thank God it is a MoPar! I was lucky with my install though. My TTI headers didn't hit anything except the rear of my AC compressor. I used the Borgeson steering gear and that helped provide a little room also. I had to use the 45 degree oil filter set-up to clear the K frame. Here are a couple more pics.

100_6825.JPG


100_6857.JPG
 

Aron

Active Member
Local time
1:45 AM
Joined
Jan 14, 2020
Messages
42
Reaction score
46
Location
Bay Area
Wow! Looks awesome Sixpacktogo! Really clean set up. Would you mind posting the part source for the 45 degree oil filter set up? It's just an angled neck right? I've been meaning to pick that up but haven't found it online.
 

Sixpactogo

Well-Known Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
1,725
Reaction score
1,581
Location
Eau Claire, WI
The 45 degree oil filter was a part of the kit I purchased from Bouchillon Performance. It is their pn: 61F680.
I'm not sure but it may be a factory Jeep part. Not sure where they get them.
 

69ChargerR/TSE

FBBO Gold Member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
474
Reaction score
215
Location
Fort Worth
Complete kit
 

It’s just me

FBBO Gold Member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
3:45 AM
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
78
Reaction score
83
Location
TN
Wow! Looks awesome Sixpacktogo! Really clean set up. Would you mind posting the part source for the 45 degree oil filter set up? It's just an angled neck right? I've been meaning to pick that up but haven't found it online.
I have one I will sell for you for cheap. I bought it for my swap project but when I put it on it didn’t fit with my RMS front setup. Comes with a brand new Mopar performance filter with a small dent in it too. Let me know if interested.
 
Top