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'68 Charger R/T 440 carburetor question

Bob Sawyer

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On my restored '68 Charger with the 440, I have the original Carter AVS 4428S carb. Everything has been restored back to stock. The choke works great, as well as the fast idle linkage, etc. After the car has been sitting for 4-5 days, it cranks and cranks before getting fuel to the carb. Once it starts, it's good to go. To reduce cranking time, I've been giving the carb a shot of fuel from a squeeze bottle. After doing that it fires up.
Now, from day to day, or even a couple days, I have no problem with it.
I'm looking for thoughts or suggestions on what might be the problem after sitting for 4-5 days.
I really do not want to replace the carburetor with an aftermarket one. I would prefer to keep everything stock.
Once it lights off, the carb performs great.
Any thoughts?
 
The newer fuel with ethanol will evaporate off so it takes a few extra cranks to fire. You pumping it quite a bit before firing it?
 
Hot engine boiling away fuel every time you park it, plus some evaporation from sitting the 4-5 days?? They were built with a insulation pad under the manifold to slow such things down. This is a common problem, and I wonder sometimes if it isnt indicitive of a worn fuel pump too, becasue that's the only place that I know of where a check valve may be present to prevent any drainback to the tank as well. Your issue could be all three minor problems together.
 
The insulation pad was not placed on every built 440....it was placed on cars with air conditioning.....those 440 with that had a flat metal bracket under the front rail on the windage tray. That served to hold it in place.

Sounds like fuel evaporation.......welcome to having a carburetor and crap fuels....
 
It's the fuel, not the carb. I would not worry about it on a restored car.
An electric fuel pump would fill the carb before cranking, but would look out of place on a restored car.
 
I forgot to mention that I am running non-ethanol fuel. The fuel pump is new . I have about 300 miles on the car since I finished the nut & bolt restoration.
Now, there could be something to that insulation pad. Did it fit underneath the manifold. I don't recall seeing one in all my years of working on Mopars.
As far as pumping the accelerator, if I am starting it within a 1-3 day period of it not running, I pump it a couple times and it starts. Otherwise, I have to pump it several times along with a lot of cranking. Rather than do that, I pop the air cleaner housing and give it a shot of fuel from a small squeeze bottle. It starts right up.
 
A block off on the intake valley pan might help, probably more than the insulation.
By the way my 66 383 had insulation under the intake, no air conditioning.
You could put an electric pump way back at between the sending unit and the fuel line, it would be invisible.
 
I think your doing the right thing. All the pump fuel, with or without ethenol, is formulated for newer cars with EFI and evaporates pretty quick.
I'm not sure if there is a fuel additive that would help? Maybe Stabil fuel stablizer, or STP Octane Booster?
 
I forgot to mention that I am running non-ethanol fuel. The fuel pump is new . I have about 300 miles on the car since I finished the nut & bolt restoration.
Now, there could be something to that insulation pad. Did it fit underneath the manifold. I don't recall seeing one in all my years of working on Mopars.
As far as pumping the accelerator, if I am starting it within a 1-3 day period of it not running, I pump it a couple times and it starts. Otherwise, I have to pump it several times along with a lot of cranking. Rather than do that, I pop the air cleaner housing and give it a shot of fuel from a small squeeze bottle. It starts right up.
If you did a "nut and bolt" restoration and your car did not come equipped with AC from the factory than the pad is incorrect.....They were assembled with the motor and received paint as well...It will be a PITA to get it to fit right with the manifold on....

http://www.performancecargraphics.com/Manifold_Insulation.htm
 
Found this, it goes over some of the issues of todays fuels. I don't think it is mentioned in this article, but it appears that Higher Octane pump fuel is likely to evaporate faster than the lower octane pump gas because the BTEX (benzene, toluene, xylene and ethyl-benzene) and Ethenol used to increase octane?

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/11/impact-of-todays-fuels-n-carbureted-engines/

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-a-brief-history-of-octane

The Fel-Pro 1215 Valley Pan / gasket does not have the heat crossover holes so it should let the intake run a bit cooler. Not sure how it would maybe delay the choke opening, but the choke can be adjusted. A thicker gasket under the carb could help also, but then you would need to make the choke rod longer?
 
Found this, it goes over some of the issues of todays fuels. I don't think it is mentioned in this article, but it appears that Higher Octane pump fuel is likely to evaporate faster than the lower octane pump gas because the BTEX (benzene, toluene, xylene and ethyl-benzene) and Ethenol used to increase octane?

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2013/11/impact-of-todays-fuels-n-carbureted-engines/

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-a-brief-history-of-octane

The Fel-Pro 1215 Valley Pan / gasket does not have the heat crossover holes so it should let the intake run a bit cooler. Not sure how it would maybe delay the choke opening, but the choke can be adjusted. A thicker gasket under the carb could help also, but then you would need to make the choke rod longer?
I agree....Welcome to the new fuels.....they all suck.....
 
If you did a "nut and bolt" restoration and your car did not come equipped with AC from the factory than the pad is incorrect.....They were assembled with the motor and received paint as well...It will be a PITA to get it to fit right with the manifold on....

http://www.performancecargraphics.com/Manifold_Insulation.htm
My first new car was a 67 Satellite 383 4-speed, non A/C car. It had the plate and insulation. I can't remember what I did 10 minutes ago, but I remember that well. I even have a couple of the front plates laying around today. As far as a book on what was supposed to be, I can't say.
 
Today's fuel makes this problem worse, but it is not a new problem. These cars were made to be driven. In 69-70 I acquired a second car to drive to and from work, so my Satellite sat during the week for drag strip duty on Saturdays. Guess what same problem with the pumping and grinding on the starter. I have never considered it a problem, just a fact of life.
 
The insulation pad was not placed on every built 440....it was placed on cars with air conditioning.....those 440 with that had a flat metal bracket under the front rail on the windage tray. That served to hold it in place.

Sounds like fuel evaporation.......welcome to having a carburetor and crap fuels....


i bought a 68 Coronet R/T about 15 years ago that had been sitting since mid 70's. It was a bare bones 4 speed/dana car with power steering being about the only option. Someone had installed headers on it, but everything else looked untouched........ it had the insulation pad. I know you are a stickler for details like this; so I figured I'd mention it. It is possible someone added it, but unlikely in my opinion. :)

edit to add: I remember, because I never saw one before this. It had gotten wet (or simply absorbed moisture) and rusted out the valley pan allowing water into the block......... I was like, WTF?
 
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Thanks everyone for chiming in. At this point, I think I'll deal with it and give it a shot of fuel after it has sat for a while.
 
i bought a 68 Coronet R/T about 15 years ago that had been sitting since mid 70's. It was a bare bones 4 speed/dana car with power steering being about the only option. Someone had installed headers on it, but everything else looked untouched........ it had the insulation pad. I know you are a stickler for details like this; so I figured I'd mention it. It is possible someone added it, but unlikely in my opinion. :)

edit to add: I remember, because I never saw one before this. It had gotten wet (or simply absorbed moisture) and rusted out the valley pan allowing water into the block......... I was like, WTF?
It has been a big debate over the pads....it is unclear as to the actual purpose of them......

Through the years people added them to reduce lifter noise.....

The only way to deduce whether it was added or original is with detailed pics....recollections give ideas but do not provide clear cut facts......

Some spun that all A12’s got them....or cars that got 4.10/3.91 gears received them but it is still a grey zone....
 
So yours is a 4spd? Nice...those were rare even when new. I've been keeping mine bare stock for over 30 years using the original 4429 and since it only got used maybe weekly or a few times a month it pretty much goes with the territory. I do the exact same thing, manual priming unless it's still able to shoot fuel from the discharge nozzles.
 
So yours is a 4spd? Nice...those were rare even when new. I've been keeping mine bare stock for over 30 years using the original 4429 and since it only got used maybe weekly or a few times a month it pretty much goes with the territory. I do the exact same thing, manual priming unless it's still able to shoot fuel from the discharge nozzles.
Thanks for responding. That eases my mind. I was concerned that it might be that carb.
 
Same issue here. My S.B. tribute has an HP 440 with a carter competition series carb. If it sits more than three days the carb is empty. I re-did the carb a couple of times thinking it was leaking. I use the best non ethanol fuel I can get. I guess it is something we live with.
 
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