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'69 Charger Project: Could use some advice...

r0t0rdr1ver

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Hi folks,

So, I have been looking for a decent project car for some time. Solid '68-'69 Charger projects are few and far between out where i live, and this car has recently come to my attention:

https://plus.google.com/photos/1164...ms/6015321879128020513?authkey=CMKx4ffwpd61Mg

I'm not new to old cars, but am new to B-bodies, and the Charger, and can't get out to see the car for another ten days (away on tour), and I was hoping those in the know could have a look over the pics and let me know if there are any obvious or not so obvious issues. I know it's tough from the relatively small photos, but it's all I have to go on until I can go see the car. As far as B-bodies go, what kind of questions should I be asking? What should I be looking out for?

Here's what I have been told:

-Rust was repaired professionally, and sheet metal replaced where required. Quarters, floors, trunk, sills etc. are supposed to be solid.
-Body needs final prep, primer, and paint.
-Fenders are rusty
-Most of the expensive and hard to find parts are included (grille, hood, decklid, spare doors, lots of smaller parts, taillights/spare taillights, complete black interior, side glass, etc.).
-No windshield or rear glass.
-Sounds like he has 'most' of the parts for the car. Not sure what else is missing until I have a look.
-727 Trans, original engine is gone, has '72 Charger 400 engine that was running.
-Underneath is clean/rust free.
-Build sheet under rear seat.
-Not sure about a fender tag.

All this can be mine for only $9500!! :D

I would really appreciate any help! Thanks in advance.
 
That's a pretty hefty investment for something you're going to have to spend a bunch of time (and $$$) to get to where you want it. If you're looking for a project, this is certainly worth checking out. I'd hardball the owner on the price though. Start negotiating at around $5k...if you think it's all there and worth you're time.
 
I'd agreed with the hardball play! I looked for a long time and found my 69 for less than double that asking price, and it's a driver! Needs work but not nearly as much as the one in the pics.. It's in my gallery. Again play hardball or keep looking. They are hard to find, but they are out there. Good luck!
 
69 Charger

I think the car is worth close to that asking price. Start around 6K and maybe you will be able to meet in the middle. I paid around that for a 68 Charger I bought that had new quarters put on but needed a lot more work. You can find better deals if you want to wait, those cars are becoming hard to find. I have seen absolute basket cases going for 5-6K.
 
Thanks a lot fellas, much appreciated. Like I mentioned, they don't come up too often close by, and when they do, the basket case/rolling shell rust buckets are going for $5K. Given where I live, I don't mind shipping the right car across the border either if the price is right, which I have done many times before. This 'local' car is supposedly solid, but who knows how well the rust repair and panel replacement was done. That, and I don't know which pricey bits are missing. Sounds like it's mostly there. I'm itching to go see it. Hopefully he is negotiable on price.

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Any threads here for B-body noobs buying their first B-body? Advice, tips, what to look for, etc?
 
I would find someone who knows b body's and preferably has had the same car for a while to check it out.... sounds like the guy has 10,000 in it and wants his money out of it and that rarely happens.... sometimes people will put a car together out of leftover parts from their project... I had a guy show up to look at my parts car and wanted my restoration for $500 saying I falsely advertised... there are all kinds out there... does it have a title?
 
I'm always very nervous about somebody else's "professional" body work.

The rust is already coming through the primer (rattle can probably), the back of the Lt qtr looks wavy. IMO, looks like poor prep and finish work (at best). Just because a shop did it, doesn't mean the work was "professional".
 
check out the frames, mice love to live there, and this besides the usual road salt,crap causes rust. the transmission crossmember especially. check out the rear shock crossmember under the trunk. these can be beat to death from air shocks. floors,trunk floor,the are between the rear window and the trunk lid, especuially the lower window channel. the front inner fenders, behind the hood hinges loves to rot. price the cost of replacing the missing parts. Charger fenders can be very pricey.
I agree on the lower price.
 
I'm finishing up my 69 Charger right now (Restomod Charger in the restoration & projects section). I can tell you the most common rust spots, around the front and rear window channels, lower rear quarters both front and rear of the tire, trunk floor, driver side inner fender (battery), lower doors and definitely check the sub frame. I agree with most of the others, "professionally done" always worries me and that's a pretty hefty price. I would check the VIN's as well, Mopar stamped a partial VIN on the driver side trunk opening (usually under the trunk seal) and on the driver side core support right on the top. I would have to look at mine again but it should match the last 8 digits of the VIN and I believe the first 2 digits are swapped on the body stamps. Example XP29F9B275863 would be stamped on the body B9 275863, the first 2 reversed then a space followed by the serial#. If all 3 match and it doesn't look like someone messed around with them then it should be a legit Charger.
 
I would find someone who knows b body's and preferably has had the same car for a while to check it out.... sounds like the guy has 10,000 in it and wants his money out of it and that rarely happens.... sometimes people will put a car together out of leftover parts from their project... I had a guy show up to look at my parts car and wanted my restoration for $500 saying I falsely advertised... there are all kinds out there... does it have a title?

No title, but we don't need them here. I'm working on having a mopar addict colleague of mine go for a look see.

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I'm always very nervous about somebody else's "professional" body work.

The rust is already coming through the primer (rattle can probably), the back of the Lt qtr looks wavy. IMO, looks like poor prep and finish work (at best). Just because a shop did it, doesn't mean the work was "professional".

I hear ya on that one!

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check out the frames, mice love to live there, and this besides the usual road salt,crap causes rust. the transmission crossmember especially. check out the rear shock crossmember under the trunk. these can be beat to death from air shocks. floors,trunk floor,the are between the rear window and the trunk lid, especuially the lower window channel. the front inner fenders, behind the hood hinges loves to rot. price the cost of replacing the missing parts. Charger fenders can be very pricey.
I agree on the lower price.

Awesome! Thanks for the guidance...exactly the kind of stuff I'm after...Cheers!

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I'm finishing up my 69 Charger right now (Restomod Charger in the restoration & projects section). I can tell you the most common rust spots, around the front and rear window channels, lower rear quarters both front and rear of the tire, trunk floor, driver side inner fender (battery), lower doors and definitely check the sub frame. I agree with most of the others, "professionally done" always worries me and that's a pretty hefty price. I would check the VIN's as well, Mopar stamped a partial VIN on the driver side trunk opening (usually under the trunk seal) and on the driver side core support right on the top. I would have to look at mine again but it should match the last 8 digits of the VIN and I believe the first 2 digits are swapped on the body stamps. Example XP29F9B275863 would be stamped on the body B9 275863, the first 2 reversed then a space followed by the serial#. If all 3 match and it doesn't look like someone messed around with them then it should be a legit Charger.

Again, thank you so much for the useful info! Great response here...not used to that after being on some of the other car forums. Thanks everyone!
 
Seller added a bunch of new photos to the link in the first post. There's a bunch more shots underneath the car. Anything obvious sticking out at anyone? Have a friend taking a look this weekend.
 
It has a crappy two-piece trunk floor in it and they didn't bother to seal the seam on the underside, the holes for the drain plugs on not punched either. They've shot primer over the previous bare rusty metal on the top of the RT qtr, but did they prep it properly? IMO, if you bought that car you'd be doing most, if not all of their work over again.

Note: my above comment about the two-piece trunk was not intended to offend anybody who restored a car with one when they were the only thing available. But in the day of AMD parts... not so much.
 
It has a crappy two-piece trunk floor in it and they didn't bother to seal the seam on the underside, the holes for the drain plugs on not punched either. They've shot primer over the previous bare rusty metal on the top of the RT qtr, but did they prep it properly? IMO, if you bought that car you'd be doing most, if not all of their work over again.

Note: my above comment about the two-piece trunk was not intended to offend anybody who restored a car with one when they were the only thing available. But in the day of AMD parts... not so much.

Normally the taillight panel HAS TO be removed to install those one piece pans. Two piece trunk pans are a work around that. If you've got nothing but time (read: MONEY), the one piece is the way to go.

Also, Rotor, have you seen this posting:

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?72353-1969-charger-project-very-solid-and-untouched-original-all-there
 
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Normally the taillight panel HAS TO be removed to install those one piece pans. Two piece trunk pans are a work around that. If you've got nothing but time (read: MONEY), the one piece is the way to go.

Also, Rotor, have you seen this posting:

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...t-very-solid-and-untouched-original-all-there

Hey Lion, I have seen that one yes. I believe it has sold already. Also not a huge fan of the 2 piece trunk floor, but whaddya do? I'll know more tomorrow, I have two friends going to see the car. One has a '70 GTX and the other a '70 Charger. Between the two, a wealth of B-body knowledge. :D
 
So, the good news is the body repairs and panel replacement that have been done thus far have been done well. That being said, there is still lots of work left to be done on the car before it will see paint. Still some small rusty spots to repair, work needed around the rear window (was a vinyl top car) and front cowl area, lots of welds to be ground down and cleaned up, surface rust starting especially around repairs. Fenders are rusty, but repairable. The car was a Canadian spec built 'sold' car, ordered in R6 red with black vinyl top and black interior. I initially thought the car was a base car, but it actually came from the factory with 383 4 bbl/727, 8.75 Sure Grip rear with 3.23's. The car is apart, but all the bits and pieces are there. Grill is in great shape as are the tail lights and bumpers. Interior is fair, and has the high buckets out of a '70 Charger. The original buckets are gone, as is the original engine and trans, missing some glass also. Other than that, everything is there and in fairly good condition. Broadcast sheet under the seat, so getting a fender tag should be straight forward. I think if I can get the car a bit cheaper it may be worthwhile. I got two thumbs up from my B-body pals who went to check it out.

Here are their pics: http://photoshare.shaw.ca/view/3399155430-1401219610-50662/0
 
Sounds like a plan. It certainly will take some time and cash money to make it nice. But hey, that's what we do! Interesting note, I looked at the new pics and saw the vin tag, it's very close to mine. Same engine code and plant and off by by a few on production number. They were built very close to each other. Interesting history. Good luck!
 
Does that car have subframe connectors welded in or has one of the frame rails been patched with flate plate? Look at the photo with the line passing through the rail....

I'd still be concerned with the amount of rust bubbling out of all the seams on the underside. The bottom of the car has be slathered in back paint over active rust.
 
Does that car have subframe connectors welded in or has one of the frame rails been patched with flate plate? Look at the photo with the line passing through the rail....

I'd still be concerned with the amount of rust bubbling out of all the seams on the underside. The bottom of the car has be slathered in back paint over active rust.

I noticed the patch too. I'm trying to get more info on that. I think the car would need to go on a rotisserie, completely strip off all the paint and undercoating, and then start on the rest of the repairs. It needs a lot of love, but it does have a lot going for it too.
 
I took a second look through the second batch of photos,

It appears that there is one photo that looks like one of the frame rails is completely rotted and shot, and secon photo appears to show rot in the rear seat pan in front of the rear rails.

Did your friends comment at that???

Also, some of the welds on the rear of the LT qtr to the tail light panel look "splattery", this is usually caused by:

1. Trying to weld on rusted metal

2. Welding without shielding gas

Neither one is an indicator of quality work.

I know you want a Charger bad... but if it was my money, I'd let this one go.
 
I know you want a Charger bad... but if it was my money, I'd let this one go.

Hi Chase, you're right...I do want a Charger bad. I had high hopes for this car, and it was local to boot. The more I look at the photos, the more I wonder about the quality of the rest of the work. The seller is firm on his price, so I will be moving on I think. Thanks Chase for all your observations, and to everyone that added their input and insight, I really appreciate it. The search continues...
 
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