'69 RR 589ci Mild Wedge race results

[440rb]

Just a quick mention of todays racing@SPR with my mate's brand new combo...race weight 3836lbs.
Nice day but with a nasty 30mph+ headwind. Driver never driven anything like this so big learning curve...previous best was 12.49@105 with mild 440 combo.

1st 2 runs taking it easy I was told was 11.35/11.33@117/119.
Next he woke up some and got used to the back end twitching some and actually turned on the shift lite proper@6000rpm, went [email protected] 60ft
Then a [email protected] 60ft
And finally a [email protected] 60ft
Track was prepped ok.
Car was turning the tyre on the rim as hadn't screwed them yet so driver wanted 16lbs in 10x29 bias Hoosiers, did not work too well, had wheelspeed that a Pro-Mod would like but did hook. We drove the car there on full exhausts, ran it with the exhausts and drove it home on the Hoosiers, couldn't be arsed to change back to street tyres, Holley 950HP (830cfm) carb wasn't performing too well and no tuning done.
So less the headwind, mono's/bars/9-way shocks adjusted better to suit, get rid of the 90/10's, an 850DP would run better and it should run low 10's@129>130...not a bad 1st time out for us amateurs...too long to list full motor/auto/converter/gearing specs unless someone is interested.

 

[66Satellite47]

Real good results. How did he get the wedge up to 589 CI?

 

[440rb]

4.565 bore x 4.500stroke

 

[biomedtechguy]

"Mild" 589...lol...
I have a couple of questions.
In a somewhat similar manner, I'll be going from low 13s, high 12s in my 70 Roadrunner to a 541 BME aluminum stroker. Target HP/TQ is around 700. Keeping the 6bbl, and the Weiand old school Super Stock intake, I'm thinking the sheer displacement and a competent, experienced MOPAR race engine builder is going to make those power goals easily attainable.
Here's a thought or two:
Block will take a 4.50 stroke without clearancing, but I am thinking the 4.25 stroke will keep piston speeds reasonable, and maybe get me a few more RPMs by design. Not looking to go with anything but a solid flat tappet cam, and don't want heavy spring pressures. Lots of street driving, occasional test and tune and grudge racing.
So some have said displacement doesn't cost any more if you're building a stroker, the only difference is a 4.5 crank vs a 4.25. It's the piston speed thing I'm thinking of.
The other thing is I don't want to overpower my car.
Lastly, I'm curious what it's like making that transition from 12s/13s to 10s.
Thanks!

 

[440rb]

It is a Mild 589 Bio and its a mismatch of parts......just the way it came already built.
low comp 10:1CR, perfect for John my mate who likes to street drive albeit not far, he's not really an out and out racer deep down.
For me its not too easy to get him to do the racer tricks and he has to get used to the rear wandering a bit etc. etc...he didn't go a lot on that so I have to ease him into things slowly...there's a lot I would've changed on the car that day but its what he wanted so thats how it is for now till he's ready.

The Motor has Race heads (572-13's, 365CNC) that need at least .700" min lift to flow well and a min 12.5:1 comp, then we can go with a Dommy....current roller is a puny .625/.625"-260/[email protected], that carb is not good but it drives ok/street.
Personally I agree going with the shorter stroke, its how I would build one if it was my car but I would be race only for rpm with 4.56's etc., no thoughts for street. Going sft cam is ok but if your up in the .650" lift area to make use of your 270's its not all roses for 90% street use, prob be ok with only around 150-ish seat pressure, we have 200 seat currently, not an expert on this.
You don't want to overpower your car?......not quite sure what you mean by that...Any street driving and it will overpowered lol.

I can give you 2 examples only from my racing days of what its like going faster>
From 12.4's in the 340 Cuda to 11.0 with N20 was really quite normal and boring actually, ......didn't notice anything much difference off the hit (surprised at that) and apart from the feeling that it was just over a bit quicker (1.4secs) felt like a normal run.
Now the 440 '69 Cuda was a different ball game, from 10.7@125 NA + a 160hp Big Shot hit to just a 9.96@134, all hell broke loose on the hit, just managed to catch 2nd gear shift, rpms were going past 7000. Going from 13's>12's is nothing, going from 12>10's in your RR will be something!!...ease into it like my mate did, I'm sure you got it all covered.

 

[66Satellite47]

4.565 bore x 4.500stroke

Which block does he have?

 

[440rb]

Mega block, and yes its on the last bore and its been sonic checked and thrust is ok but a bit thin on 1 pot at the back. To date its holding well temp wise, no probs.

 

[440rb]

This is his best run of the day>


watch from 5hrs/34mins/47sec in if you don't wanna watch the boring stuff

 

[biomedtechguy]

Pretty cool.
Some forum members may find this strange, but I'm reading through bobtile's "Waking up the Beast" saga, and from the early part of that which has some video clips in it, and the one you posted, it looks like lifting the front tires off the ground a bit may be something I have to look forward to, especially with the aluminum block.
That makes my inner teenager happy!

 

[440rb]

Thats not how I want the RR to react, don't like it but it was what it was on the day.....watch the orange pontiac@4hrs/50mins in....thats how.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thats not how I want the RR to react, don't like it but it was what it was on the day.....watch the orange pontiac@4hrs/50mins in....thats how.

Thanks, I'm on the road, so as soon as I get back to WiFi, I'll check it out.
Thank you!

 

[33 IMP]

"Whats it like, making the transition from 13s to tens?" (Aproximate quote)
In my opinion, 440rb's friend did it exactly right. Be a little afraid at first, so you dont get in over your head, panic and do something stupid. Get a good feel for the way the car reacts, how it moves down track without giving it everything its got , at first. Notice , 440rb's buddy improved every pass as he got more used to the feel of the car.
I started with a high 12s/ low 13s four speed street car, made lots of laps in it, but that was the fastest i had ever gone. Then my friend let me make some passes in his 440/727/D60 car, a mid 11s ride. Scared the crap out of me! The hardest leave ever! Shifted 1/2 way early, shifted 2/3 late, concentrating on making the shifts in the right direction, rmvp, made it to the traps, what a RUSH! Made a couple more laps that day, strangly didn/t improve on the first pass. Pissed the owner off though, short shifting first made mine the best pass of the day.
I finally got my own 440 powered 62 into the very low elevens, and eventually, with pactice and seat time , low elevens started to feel kinda slow, in high gear by 330 feet, just waiting for the end of the track to get here. So i decided i wanted to go faster.
I found a very unique ex super gasser, and put together the cheapest easiest combo for it i could. I really wanted to use a 440 for it , but set up for a small block chevy and having custom headers come with the car made deciding on a 200lb lighter combo a no-brainer. Lots of tire, light weight, i expected another step up in performance. Just wasn't so sure about the transbrake.
First laps with the tina, very cautious, leaving off the foot brake, easier than i thought cause it seemed to be a nicely sorted out car. (peviously a high rpm small block with a lenco!?) First attempt with the transbrake, WOW, this thing leaves hard. Still only mid 6s 1/8, on a poorly prepped airport runway.
Finally try the transbrake on a decent strip, what was that? Oh, first wheelie !YEE HAH! After 20 laps or so, you get used to it.
I will say, once you are used to a nine second ride, elevens seems really slow. But i'll bet things get real fast in a ten second stick car!
Again, Bio, i would suggest exactly what 440rb's buddy did, sneak up on it. Short shifts, part thottle, till you are comfy. Getting faster every run is fun!

 

[Budnicks]

1st time out, rookie driver
mismatched parts, not to shabby

looks like the car likes 1.50 60ft

certainly more in it & the driver creeping up on it
getting use to it too

------------------------------------------------------------
not to hijack your thread @440rb

to the other question;
13's basically a hot street car old muscle car
or even 12's to 10's wasn't a big deal IMO
braking was a surprise a few times, car swaying back & forth
"real slicks" especially, on softer sidewalls/lower air pressures etc.
just needed to get use to it, lots of mass up high
I had been doing it since I was 15,
my 1st 8 second pass was days after turning 18,
in a blown Altered

in a full body car
10's @ 120 seemed like I could drink a Coke & light a cigarette
to 8's @ 150's was a bit of a wake up, **** was more of a hand full
(especially in a big *** 3500+ lb B-body)
then to 7's @ 180+, **** starts & happens really fast
or the T/S mid-hi 6's @ 217 was a huge difference
(real racecars, not some hoped up street car)

for every second or even 1/2 a second, your 60 ft, will get better
that's where a ton of the ET is made up in faster cars

as soon as I hit the 7.98 @ 169+ things were happening much quicker
seemed my vision was far more focused, down track
a wrong move at that speed could be fatal
"some call it tunnel vision" only had it a couple of passes
I got use to it relatively quick

it's a whole different animal than running even mid 9's
after a while, that seemed slow too
seemed like getting in a full body car running high 9's or low 10's
was like counting guardrail posts, as I was going down track
as soon as I was in the mid 8's, I started getting way more 'tunnel vision'
& a true sensation of speed

strange what you can get use to

I was going back & forth between a full bodied car
(a full body car was way more prone to getting "upset"
when too much steer input, getting out of the groove)
especially compared to solid suspension open car (altered)
even in the mid 8's to low 7's in a full bodied car
& getting in an Altered running 6.90's @ 190 was fun,
the open cockpit was a real MPH sensation,
especially with an engine right in-front of you,
sitting almost on the rear housing, semi-prone
completely different animal, talk about **** flying by fast...
(but I think my grandma could drive it, it was that stable/safe...)

my street car ran N/A mid-hi 9's to low 10's on shitty tracks
N/A 9.77 @ 135 & 8.58 @ 156 "on Juice" on track, full street trim

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thats not how I want the RR to react, don't like it but it was what it was on the day.....watch the orange pontiac@4hrs/50mins in....thats how.

Well, the announcer said it carried the front weels through the 60 ft. Is that what you're saying you wanted the Roadrunner to do? Even better if so!

 

[biomedtechguy]

my street car ran N/A mid-hi 9's to low 10's on shitty tracks
N/A 9.77 @ 135

Thanks @Budnicks. Tell me a little more about the high 9/low 10 second street car, because if high 9s, low 10s N/A is where I wind up, once it's all sorted, me included, I'd be
one
happy
biomedtechguy!
Heck, if a little shot of N²O (like I've been asking about...maybe a 150 shot) is what takes me from low 10s to high 9s, I'm totally fine with that.

 

[biomedtechguy]

once you are used to a nine second ride, elevens seems really slow. But i'll bet things get real fast in a ten second stick car!

Oh YES!, I "get busy" piloting "the craft" BUT I will say that much of what the monkey behind the wheel (me) has to do seems "automatic"...Gear shifts? I only have to get the direction of the next throw correct, and a little bit of how to hit the width of the gate, but I really don't have to give ANY of that much thought. Popping the clutch pedal for the quick power shifts is pretty automatic too, and I may take up Herb McCandless on his advice of putting a pedal stop on the underside of the clutch pedal. That way I won't waste any motion, just hit it and when it stops moving grab the next gear and lift off the clutch. Honestly it doesn't bother me the way it is, it all happens so fast, but I'm sure stuff like a clutch pedal stop can save a tenth or so, at least over the course of 3 gear changes, and damn sure might keep me from mistiming the pedal stroke and missing a gear. I love my bright yellow shift light, it works great, although sometimes I think I may need a quick electric zap to the nutsack to make sure I shift, that's probably more my imagination than reality of me being late to shift, otherwise I'd be bouncing off the rev limiter, and that doesn't really happen.
Besides, a "nutsack zapper shift reminder" would be one heck of a marketing challenge!

 

[33 IMP]

My problem was that the 62 has a reverse pattern full manual pattern valve body, and the Tina has a forward pattern transbrake. So in the plymouth, I have to pull to make a gear change, in the tina, gotta push. Heaven help if you don't remember which car, and do it wrong!

 

[Budnicks]

Thanks @Budnicks. Tell me a little more about the high 9/low 10 second street car, because if high 9s, low 10s N/A is where I wind up, once it's all sorted, me included, I'd be
one
happy
biomedtechguy!
Heck, if a little shot of N²O (like I've been asking about...maybe a 150 shot) is what takes me from low 10s to high 9s, I'm totally fine with that.

sorry to hijack the thread, again...

Biomed6bblstrokerdude

IMO the biggest thing I'd say is
your 60 ft will be far better, seat of the pant G-forecs
if your traction aides works
(with an 727 & a good converter I know it would easily),
if your tires work,
a crap load better than what yours has done to date,
with them crappy no sidewall Toyo tires
(sorry I tell it like I see it)

I'd say the feeling G-forces off the launch,
should be the biggest change/feeling
with possibly/hopefully a more respectable 1.50-1.60 or better 60ft
with the manual trans, it may not go down like that

I'd still hope it's 60 ft is far better than it's done to date...
(hope not overpowering the track or shocking the tires/spinning too hard on the initial hit,
with the hit master or not)
It may just MPH out the back door, to get a better ET too
big motors are know for that

torque is what moves you = ET
& HP = MPH

if it does hook & works properly or marginally well
the g-forces/seat of the pants feel, it plants you back in the seat,
from the start to 330 ft mark
the big end isn't much different, just do easy corrections...
(unless it's 45*s sideways, then pray, it keeps off the walls)

you got this

 

[biomedtechguy]

Biomedstrokerdude

(with an 727 & a good converter I know it would easily)

I prefer the infinitely adjustable stall speed and extra pedal!

them crappy no sidewall Toyo tires
(sorry I tell it like I see it)

I've looked real hard at the next pair (or 2 pair) of tires. I'm thinking hard about the crappy 345/40/17 Toyo Proxes TQ drag radials, that would get me a little more sidewall and an inch more tread width, and a whopping 2.1" of height. I'm concerned because although the 315/35/17s look fine on my 9" W wheels, Toyo says the minimum for the ones I've had for 3 years are supposed to be on a 10.5" min. and the larger 345s on a 11.5..
Now, OTOH, the M/T has a 315/50 that's 11+" wide, and I'd go from 25.8" diameter to 29.4" They also have a 315/35 and a 305/45...all in a 17"
BUT
I can tell you, for SURE, that I couldn't and wouldn't use those for street tires, because rain would mean parking.
So I'm probably going to see what the 345/40s look like on my "officially" too narrow 9" wheel, and if they bulge, go with another pair of the 315s that have been safe in the occasional rain storm.
Now if all of the traction aids and launch control and stiffening etc and LINE LOCK doesn't get them to hook, I can look at the M/Ts as a track only tire.
For now, I'm going to use up the rest of the surprisingly good tread I have on my 315s and see how they hook w/all the new stuff.
Thanks Budnicks!

 

[440rb]

Well, the announcer said it carried the front weels through the 60 ft. Is that what you're saying you wanted the Roadrunner to do? Even better if so!

Yes somewhere near that, doesn't have to be to the 60 but its what I thought we may have something near to with a 2.77 (I think it is) low first gear in the 727 and a 3600>4200 stall with 724ftlbs@4400 I expected that amount of torque to push the car into the air a bit more. However as I haven't got any feedback from the driver yet on flash stall on the hit or anything else actually (understandable) and the way he wanted me to leave the chassis/tyre settings we got what we got. At the end of the day if he's happy with the way it reacts thats fine with me, I don't push him into anything just suggest how I think the settings could be better. It needs to be base lined with different stiffer settings, but its early days and we'll get it better as we go along.