'71 440 Magnum...testing my patience

[Skytrooper]

Man, this thing has really been testing my patience.

I am trying to get it timed so that maybe I can get it to start.
I have lined up the mark on vibration damper, ensured compression stroke, lined up oil pump drive gear inline with cylinders, and still no joy.
I have grounded #1 plug to header to see when it sparks. I have lifted and turned distributor 180 degrees...just as devils advocate, tried different wiring combinations of distributor cap.
I am just running out of ideas. This shouldn't be so difficult....fuel, air, spark.

 

[Officer Higgins]

 

[1967coronet]

Is it trying to fire ? backfire through the carb ect ?
Im sure you also checked your fuel shot out of the carb.
Did you install the cam or someone else ?
If you not sure on the cam line up you may want to pull the left valve cover and see were your valves are when #1 is up on compression stroke.

Some times when fighting something its best to go back to sq.1 , pull all the wires, cap & distributor, dbl check the pump drive and the TDC.
Ive done some dumb *** stuff before , like forgetting to stab on the rotor lol.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 Counter rotation on the distributor. Number 1 front driver side.

 

[Don Frelier]

Pull all the plugs, crank it over and put a timing light on it.
Set for -10.
A compression test would be a good idea as well.
Are they getting fouled? You said you put a bunch of oil in them...

 

[beanhead]

I think you're on the right track, but to confirm: TDC compression stroke on #1 shows the damper mark at 0°..you can definitely feel the difference between the compression and exhaust strokes with a finger over the plug hole. Sometimes it helps to roll the motor a couple of full turns to differentiate between the two. At this point, with the oil pump shaft installed, when you drop in the distributor the rotor should be pointing at the #1 tower. If it's in between towers your oil pump shaft needs to be re-inserted. You can use Don's method above to set initial advance; another way is to set the damper to 10° BTDC and then twist the distributor a hair to point the rotor directly at #1. You verified spark, right, so if the above all checks out you ain't-a-gettin no gas. This is assuming the camshaft is installed properly.

 

[Skytrooper]

Yup, great advice for sure.
I have check the compression stroke with my finger on #1. Valves closed. Definitely have fuel, watched jet squirt it in.
Prior to this I did have backfire through the carb...Don witnessed this. Get great spark on #1 with vibe damper almost 90 degrees beyond tdc, with dizzy 180 degrees out. I have tried many different wiring schemes based on that...keeping in mind the firing order. I did not install the cam. So...I am a bit stumped

 

[oldbee]

Sounds like you’re a180* out of time. Pull dist,rotate 180* and reinstall. Who put in the camshaft? 180* out happens all the time to even the best of us.

 

[miller]

440? Look at simple basics on it.
Verify #1 TDC, 0 on the dampner, #1 piston up top.
If that's good, look at your distributor/oil pump drive. Normal install, line the slot at the top of the gear, with the CAM, front to back.
Decide two things...1) what initial timing you want to start with (example 12* BTDC), 2) how you want the distributor to sit, so parts will clear other engine parts.
Once #1 piston is TDC, by hand, reverse the engine rotation, past the initial you want (to take out chain slack), then back up to initial timing mark.

Then, drop the distributor in, usually with the rotor pointing towards #1 cylinder. Rotate the distributor housing, until the firing point, points or otherwise, and that is where you want it. Points just start to break open.
Distributor cap on, noting where the rotor is pointing, with the CCW direction in mind. There's where your #1 plug wire goes, followed by the rest of the firing order.

Fuel, spark, air...should fire right off!

 

[mopar_chuck]

1). Since you did not install the cam, pull off the cover and varify the timing marks. I have seen people get this part 180 degrees off too

2). A guy I know got his engine home from the builder and could not get it to start. Turned out that the block was decked and heads planned so much that it was not letting the valves fully close to build compression. The proper cure would have been shorter push rods but we shimmed the rocker shafts to raise it up enough for the valves to close and it took right off

3). We rebuilt a 440 for a guy last year and could not get the dam thing to start no matter what. The choke on the carb was removed. Out of desperation we installed the choke for the hell of it..... ended up starting after that.

Hope this helps

 

[Daves69]

...Get great spark on #1 with vibe damper almost 90 degrees beyond tdc, with dizzy 180 degrees out.....

Is this with a stock distributor?
The aftermarkets may not be indexed the same as stock. Keeping the firing order the same you might need to index the plug wires around the cap. Find out where cylinder #1 TDC fires and index the wires accordingly. (ex.... maybe cylinder #1 TDC compression stroke fires at #3 on the cap, so that would be where you locate #1 wire)
The below is with the oil pump drive indexed per the SM...….

 

[Skytrooper]

Daves69,

That is exactly where it was at once I indexed the oil pump drive gear.

Now I have seen this several times;
"drop the distributor in, usually with the rotor pointing towards #1 cylinder"

I have never had the rotor point to #1 cylinder. I have had it point to #7, #6, and #2 (really at the alternator). I have reinstalled the wires in firing order for all of these scenarios. Do they mean #1 on the distributor ?

All of these configurations have the vacuum advance basically pointing up and with the reluctor just opening the points.

 

[Daves69]

Do they mean #1 on the distributor ?

On the cap like the picture. Is your distributor a stocker?
And inspect your cap inside too. Seen some with the coil tip broke off.
Herse's mine (an MP distributor)……………

...…….

 

[Daves69]

"drop the distributor in, usually with the rotor pointing towards #1 cylinder"

For a stock distributor it was common to point the vacuum advance toward #1 CYLINDER on reinstall.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Yes, point the rotor towards the number one on the cap. It will be pointing between the valve cover and the alternator ish. The rotor does not point to number one cylinder on the drive side.

 

[Skytrooper]

Ok, that makes more sense, just the way it was written confused me.
So, to recap...
1. Set tdc on cylinder #1
2. Check timing mark on vibe damper
3. Make sure slot on oil pump drive gear is parallel to cam shaft.
4. Drop dizzy in so it is pointing at #1 wire position (approx 5 o'clock when viewing from right fender).
5. Check to make sure wires go on with respect to firing order, and rotor direction (ccw).
6. Vacuum advance should generally point to #1 cylinder.

As long as fuel and air are present...it should start, or did I leave anything out ?

Its funny about #1 on the distributor...all the diagrams I saw showed #1 pointing towards #8 cylinder. Same direction of rotation, same firing order, but at about the 10 oclock position when veiwed from the right fender.

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Thats all good Pull number one plug out rotate engine till it blows your finger off the hole. Thats top dead center on a compression stroke. At this point check the line on the balancer and make sure its at 0. Then you will check the button to make sure its pointing to number 1 on the cap.

Honestly you can index the shaft any way you choose.. It just changes where number 1 is located. However its common to point it where everyone says. Kind of like a 350 chevy you can be 180 out and rotate the wires 180 and it will run.

 

[Skytrooper]

Since I am using an old school points distributor, once I get everything lined up, do I adjust the distributor until the points open on #1 ?

 

[BeepBeepRR]

Its been a long time for me and points. This would be a job for somebody that knows old school. I think you get the lobe to open it then adjust the gap to specs and tighten it down. Leave the distributor semi loose so that you can rotate it.

 

[543sixpack]

You can use an ohm meter to check when the points open and set your timing, also just a thought but I changed plugs in my 440 once and it wouldn’t run, put the old ones back in and it’s been running ever since, something to think about, just cause it’s new doesn’t mean it’s any good!