73 Roadrunner 318 w/ newer 440 swap. Worth?

[Superspare]

Hey all! Finally pulling the trigger and getting my first mopar. I want to make sure that I am on the right page with pricing. I am looking at a 73 Roadrunner that was originally a 318. It looks like around 2003 the 318 was pulled and they dropped in a 440 crate motor from about 2000. It is pretty straight, no mechanical problems, minor electrical problems, a little surface rust and very minimal on the frame. I can't really find anywhere that determines how greatly getting rid of a numbers matching motor for a newer motor really affects value. Last thing I want is to invest a bunch of money in this thing and have it become a money pit. Any insight on value would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Jerry Hall]

I don't think upgrading to a 440 a price lowering thing. Condition of the body, electrical, and the rest of the mechanicals is what I would consider. There are price guides that will tell you an appropriate value by condition. I wouldn't take anything away for the non original engine, but I wouldn't add anything either unless it was a high dollar performance build with documentation.

 

[Superspare]

I don't think upgrading to a 440 a price lowering thing. Condition of the body, electrical, and the rest of the mechanicals is what I would consider. There are price guides that will tell you an appropriate value by condition. I wouldn't take anything away for the non original engine, but I wouldn't add anything either unless it was a high dollar performance build with documentation.

I appreciate your reply, Jerry!

 

[hunt2elk]

Jerry's response is spot on, my thoughts exactly. You made the comment of investing a bunch of money in this thing. Just remember that 73's are not bringing the same money as previous years, so be careful you don't overpay.

 

[SattyNoCar]

Only thing I have to add is, how well the swap was done will affect price too.

Was the engine hacked into place?

Were other upgrades made to the suspension and rear axle to handle the extra torque and weight?

This year B-body is VERY easy to tell if it originally had a small block because the passenger side inner fender is different small vs big block. (only really matters if you're going for a 'stock' look).

'73's can be fun cars, but if you're looking for return on investment later on, you might be better off going for an earlier model.....

 

[70chall440]

Well since you asked the question I will say this, you are approaching this transaction all wrong, if you are worried about the "value" then you might want to look at art or something. Not trying to be a dick but this hobby has gotten all twisted up with value, fender tags and the like. It is highly doubtful that this car will ever be a 6 figure or higher car as it is essentially a typical example of the breed.

The car is worth what similar cars of it's condition are worth. The 440 is an upgrade in many's minds however probably sacrilege in others. I once owner a 74 with a 340 and it was a blast. With that said, if you are looking for something that is going to appreciate in value tremendously and could be considered an "investment" you might want to look at something else. It will appreciate to a degree as time goes on until which time there is no interest in them and then it will be garage art. However this doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it if this a car you really like (read love) and something you have always wanted, if not then again look elsewhere.

If the car needs a lot of work it is going to be a money sponge (as they all are) but to a Mopar car this seldom is an obstacle because they love the car. I have a variety of cars that I am definitely upside down in (by like a lot) but I don't care because I don't intend on selling any of them anytime soon but if I did then I just chalk it up to the life that is being a car guy.

 

[Superspare]

Well since you asked the question I will say this, you are approaching this transaction all wrong, if you are worried about the "value" then you might want to look at art or something. Not trying to be a dick but this hobby has gotten all twisted up with value, fender tags and the like. It is highly doubtful that this car will ever be a 6 figure or higher car as it is essentially a typical example of the breed.

The car is worth what similar cars of it's condition are worth. The 440 is an upgrade in many's minds however probably sacrilege in others. I once owner a 74 with a 340 and it was a blast. With that said, if you are looking for something that is going to appreciate in value tremendously and could be considered an "investment" you might want to look at something else. It will appreciate to a degree as time goes on until which time there is no interest in them and then it will be garage art. However this doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it if this a car you really like (read love) and something you have always wanted, if not then again look elsewhere.

If the car needs a lot of work it is going to be a money sponge (as they all are) but to a Mopar car this seldom is an obstacle because they love the car. I have a variety of cars that I am definitely upside down in (by like a lot) but I don't care because I don't intend on selling any of them anytime soon but if I did then I just chalk it up to the life that is being a car guy.

Thanks! I meant moreso if I dump 20k into interior, rust restoration, paint, etc. am I going to recoup any of that or am I looking at a 15k cap sale price.

And yeah, I'm used to losing money on motorcycles and imports, but this is my first big block and a whole different money pit lol.

 

[Superspare]

Appreciate it! What, in your experience, is overpaying on something like this?

Jerry's response is spot on, my thoughts exactly. You made the comment of investing a bunch of money in this thing. Just remember that 73's are not bringing the same money as previous years, so be careful you don't over pay.

 

[Superspare]

Only thing I have to add is, how well the swap was done will affect price too.

Was the engine hacked into place?

Were other upgrades made to the suspension and rear axle to handle the extra torque and weight?

This year B-body is VERY easy to tell if it originally had a small block because the passenger side inner fender is different small vs big block. (only really matters if you're going for a 'stock' look).

'73's can be fun cars, but if you're looking for return on investment later on, you might be better off going for an earlier model.....

Thanks! Not sure on axle but engine looks like it was done correctly and upgraded Trans to match so pretty pro job. I just know that almost all projects eventually get sold and I don't want to be upside down a ton on it. Mainly curious what fair market would be since it's NOM, but unable to find much online.

 

[70chall440]

Thanks! I meant moreso if I dump 20k into interior, rust restoration, paint, etc. am I going to recoup any of that or am I looking at a 15k cap sale price.

And yeah, I'm used to losing money on motorcycles and imports, but this is my first big block and a whole different money pit lol.

So then the question becomes is the car worth anywhere near $35K when done? I'd say "probably" given what classic Mopars are going for. You would be in the ball park assuming everything works out and the car is nice. The main issue would be is that the mid 70's cars are not really in their own at the moment, will probably be at some point but currently not so much. The 71/72's are coming on but they like all of the classic cars are fighting a battle of attrition and interest. The potential buyer pool is not getting much larger, yes there is still interest and there is some crazy money floating around the auctions but they are more of a anomaly than a trend. The truly unique and rare cars will continue to command good money which has a trickle down effect.

This car looks to be F8 green or close to that, I do not think that was a real common color back in 73 (could be wrong but I have never seen one). If you do the car well and it presents almost stock or better said a "what could have been" type build it should command some decent money, not enough to retire on a beach on but perhaps at least break even.

The problem you will have is that these cars are never what you think, if there is a little rust then there is more you can't see. Electrical issues are always a problem unless the car is exceptionally well preserved or the harness replaced so expect to spend some quality time there if nothing more than cleaning up the various harnesses.

They are great cars, look awesome and are fun to drive so I'd say jump on it.

 

[Superspare]

So then the question becomes is the car worth anywhere near $35K when done? I'd say "probably" given what classic Mopars are going for. You would be in the ball park assuming everything works out and the car is nice. The main issue would be is that the mid 70's cars are not really in their own at the moment, will probably be at some point but currently not so much. The 71/72's are coming on but they like all of the classic cars are fighting a battle of attrition and interest. The potential buyer pool is not getting much larger, yes there is still interest and there is some crazy money floating around the auctions but they are more of a anomaly than a trend. The truly unique and rare cars will continue to command good money which has a trickle down effect.

This car looks to be F8 green or close to that, I do not think that was a real common color back in 73 (could be wrong but I have never seen one). If you do the car well and it presents almost stock or better said a "what could have been" type build it should command some decent money, not enough to retire on a beach on but perhaps at least break even.

The problem you will have is that these cars are never what you think, if there is a little rust then there is more you can't see. Electrical issues are always a problem unless the car is exceptionally well preserved or the harness replaced so expect to spend some quality time there if nothing more than cleaning up the various harnesses.

They are great cars, look awesome and are fun to drive so I'd say jump on it.

Thanks for the thorough reply! There is rust. I ran a magnet and passenger rear quarter is more bonds than steel. Good bit around windows, and more than I like in the passenger door frame. Really trying to decide if this is worth 15k as is.

 

[#41]

Nobody is looking for a numbers matching 318 73 RR. They are great drivers, but not a performance car. Drop a 440 in one, and given equal condition to a numbers matching 318 car, the value stays about the same.

The bottom line is ... it's not an investment grade car. Except for the creme, almost no Mopar muscle car is. You will never recoup more than a fraction of what you put into it. Of course if you love it, then certainly buy it and enjoy it.

 

[70chall440]

Thanks for the thorough reply! There is rust. I ran a magnet and passenger rear quarter is more bonds than steel. Good bit around windows, and more than I like in the passenger door frame. Really trying to decide if this is worth 15k as is.

If it is heavy with bondo I would be very cautious since no one makes quarters for it, but that depends on your skill level, tools and willingness to do the necessary work. At $15K if that car has to go to a body shop its going to get real expensive rear fast. I do all my own work so I too many times jump into projects I shouldn't but I am recommending that to anyone. AMD makes trunk floor extensions and wheel houses but not much else. It is going to be awhile before that the big sheet metal will be available.

You really haven't mentioned your overall desires or intentions when it comes to a classic car. Is this RR a car you have wanted for a long time or something that has just happened to become available? If you are kind of "meh" about the car I'd walk away and look for something that gets you excited, otherwise it is going to be a chain around your neck and you will come to hate it (ask me how I know).

 

[Superspare]

If it is heavy with bondo I would be very cautious since no one makes quarters for it, but that depends on your skill level, tools and willingness to do the necessary work. At $15K if that car has to go to a body shop its going to get real expensive rear fast. I do all my own work so I too many times jump into projects I shouldn't but I am recommending that to anyone. AMD makes trunk floor extensions and wheel houses but not much else. It is going to be awhile before that the big sheet metal will be available.

You really haven't mentioned your overall desires or intentions when it comes to a classic car. Is this RR a car you have wanted for a long time or something that has just happened to become available? If you are kind of "meh" about the car I'd walk away and look for something that gets you excited, otherwise it is going to be a chain around your neck and you will come to hate it (ask me how I know).

Yeah I just love anything fast and loud. I've been into motorcycles and German/Japanese since I was a teen. I can manage basic body work, but you'd tell I did it. Always shyed away from classics because of the inherent issues that come with age; rust etc. That said I'm all over the place from RR to pony cars to early caddys to trucks. I'll love this as much as any other old car so at this point I'm looking for a solid daily driver project without paying more than it's worth as is.

 

[70chall440]

Well based on what you have said I'd definitely try and get it as cheap as possible. I think $15K is a bit high if it is a rust bucket. You can jam an engine into any number of things and have something fast.

 

[hunt2elk]

Appreciate it! What, in your experience, is overpaying on something like this?

To me it would totally depend on how solid the body is. A nice paint job nowadays is 15K if you take it to somebody decent and you use top of the line paint and clears. And that is not including any metal replacement. Quarters, dutchman panel, floors, rocker panel, misc metal replacement, if you don't do that yourself will have you way upside down real fast. It just wouldn't be worth it on a 73 car imo.
Another option is to buy it and just drive it. Don't do anything with the rust/bondo. That is if nothing structural is bad. Your monetary loss would not be so bad going this route when you go to sell it. Unfortunately for me, that doesn't work in my world - I hate rust....

 

[YY1]

I replied to your other thread.

Maybe they can be merged since the titles are the same.

I don't see a lot of rust from the 2 pics.

Do you have pics of the areas in question?

71-74 is prone to rust in the cowl and is very difficult and expensive to repair there.
Put your arm down in there after removing the screens below the windshield.
Look closely at the door hinge area. All around that area, relly.
They also like to go in the lower rear window corners, and if rusted through there, the trunk floor, and quarter panel wheel arches go.
Also kind of oddly- the insides of the top rear corners of the quarter panels starting inside the trunk.

 

[Superspare]

To me it would totally depend on how solid the body is. A nice paint job nowadays is 15K if you take it to somebody decent and you use top of the line paint and clears. And that is not including any metal replacement. Quarters, dutchman panel, floors, rocker panel, misc metal replacement, if you don't do that yourself will have you way upside down real fast. It just wouldn't be worth it on a 73 car imo.
Another option is to buy it and just drive it. Don't do anything with the rust/bondo. That is if nothing structural is bad. Your monetary loss would not be so bad going this route when you go to sell it. Unfortunately for me, that doesn't work in my world - I hate rust....

Yeah so do i. Just knowing there is rust eats away at me worse than it does the car

 

[Sparky Anderson]

If you go 440, from 318, not just the cost of motor, it will be the whole drivetrain, it will get expensive if you want to do it right. But nothing wrong doing a 360 build with a 3.91 gear or bigger in rear end, it will give any big block car a run for it's money off the line. I know, I have one!

 

[70chall440]

If you go 440, from 318, not just the cost of motor, it will be the whole drivetrain, it will get expensive if you want to do it right. But nothing wrong doing a 360 build with a 3.91 gear or bigger in rear end, it will give any big block car a run for it's money off the line. I know, I have one!

He was looking at a car that already had a 440 in it.... He was asking if the car was worth the money.