A little confused over battery issues....

Electrical & Ignition

  1. Mocajava

    Mocajava FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I have a 69 Coronet with a 383 stroked to a 496, with a new wiring system for the entire car. The battery is mounted in the trunk with a heavy cable running forward and through a cutoff switch. My compression ratio is about 11 to 1 and gage reads about 13.7-14 amps while running. She starts fine when cold every time, I have a Holly Sniper EFI system on it. The issue is after running the roads, just normal driving for about 30 minutes and getting to 195 temp. When I shut her off I can't get her started again...she only makes about one to two sluggish revolutions and acts like battery is drained. The battery is new, isn't all that large but seems to be drained. If I wait an hour to let everything cool down, she cranks right up again very easily. I realize the battery in the trunk takes more drain just from the resistance of cable over that long route to starter, but the issue seems to be the heat of the engine. I have double checked all the connections and confirmed all are tight. Could it be that the battery isn't big enough to provide enough amperage when hot and the compression ration is slightly higher when the engine gets to operating temp causing my starting problems? I am thinking about getting a larger battery which provides more cranking amps but wanted to get some expert opinions before I spend more cash chasing this problem. Thanks for the help Gents! Mocajava
     
  2. Mackman

    Mackman Active Member

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    Engines crank a little harder when warm due to increased compression seal. Also, maybe your initial timing is a little much, but in the end I bet it’s the starter.
     
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    • 747mopar

      747mopar FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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      Before you buy a battery have someone crank it over cold and hot while checking the voltage at the starter, compare the 2 readings and you'll have your answer. Sounds like the starter is the problem to me, won't crank once it's hot. You can try heat shields or going to a mini to get some of the heat away from it. At any rate knowing the voltage while cranking will get you pointed in the right direction.

      Another thing to consider is adding a ground cable from the battery to the block, not necessary as most don't but it's a hell of a lot better than using the chassis.
       
      Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
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      • Mocajava

        Mocajava FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        I neglected/ forgot to mention that I have headers with a tight fit and a high torque mini starter. In thinking more about your comment about starter, maybe a need a good heat shield or wrap to deflect and insulate against the heat issues. Any suggestions on the recommendations for insulator options? Thanks for responding Mackman, I think you are correct on both cases!
         
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        • WileERobby

          WileERobby Well-Known Member

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          Heat, baby, heat... you got to try to isolate & insulate that cable going to the starter.
           
        • Mocajava

          Mocajava FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          I do have engine grounded to chassis, everything was sandblasted before I started this project.... totally clean. I ran ground straps, tranny and engine to frame, after scraping down to bare metal. I will try a heat deflector/ shield on starter first plus run an auxiliary ground straight to block from battery if the problem persists. Totally embarrassing when you can't get her cranked!
           
        • Don Frelier

          Don Frelier FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          If you are controlling the timing try backing it off 5-10 degrees when it's hot just to see if it makes a difference.
          You could also try a jump box on the battery not a bad thing to have around.
           
        • 66Satellite47

          66Satellite47 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Seems like a starter issue. Starter drive contacts?
           
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          • Mocajava

            Mocajava FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Checked all the contacts again and and they are tight. I do have a jump box I carry BUT...finding and curing the issue will give me more security than knowing I have to take a jump box all the time. I would appreciate any comments on a shield or wrap and what good or bad experience anyone has had with those aspects. Mocajava
             
          • Nevada dan

            Nevada dan Well-Known Member

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            starter ,your probable reluctant to face it because of headers but it's most likely the starter
             
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            • Don Frelier

              Don Frelier FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              I wasn't suggesting using a jump box all the time just to try and determine if the battery was underpowered.
              I'm betting starter as well.
              I have my headers wrapped a real nasty project but it does keep down the underhood temperatures.
              Good luck with it.
              As I've said before here:
              Headers = Pain in the Ass
               
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              • aeon280

                aeon280 Well-Known Member

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                You might try a DEI heat wrap for the starter as opposed to wrapping the headers. I use their stuff on the wires the run close to the headers and it seems to be doing the job.
                 
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                • dadsbee

                  dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  You've got a starter that the armature is heat soaking, get a new one...
                   
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                  • Mocajava

                    Mocajava FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    I do have the wires encased in an insulator sleeve and will try some type of wrap or sleeve on the starter. The engine only has about 150 miles on it, starter is brand new and maybe I can eliminate the problem by wrapping it before I have to replace the starter. Thank you gentlemen, I appreciate all your comments. Mocajava
                     
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                    • sam dupont

                      sam dupont Well-Known Member

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                      What gauge is your Ground Cable? Have seen thinner ones cause your issue. Don't know if the chassis does a good job of conducting.
                       
                    • 64fury74charger

                      64fury74charger Well-Known Member

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                      For what it’s worth I had similar issues with my Charger so the mini starter is wrapped and shielded, the header collector near the starter is wrapped as well. When I moved the battery to the trunk I ran 2 gauge for both cables and also used 2 gauge for the ground from the block to the core support. Then again 2 gauge to the starter relay on the firewall. Several other ground cables as well. Clean power and clean ground and insulation or heat shielding will help. No starter is issues since the upgrade. Just my opinion and experience and that’s all.

                      :thumbsup: :luvplace: :steering:
                       
                    • Mocajava

                      Mocajava FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      Thanks for the advice 64Fury, I am having hopes I can cure this.....I also have #2 cable for power, one size smaller for the ground. The header is only 3/4" away from starter and since this is definitely a heat issue, I will be wrapping the headers as well as an insulator for the starter. I found header wrap good to 2000 degrees on amazon and have it coming along with stainless clamps. I will pursue the starter shield and report back when I find something solid. Any particular ones I should look at!??
                       
                    • multimopes

                      multimopes FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      Good luck with wrapping the headers. I did mine as far as I could get (on that side of the engine only), years ago but have even less room between the starter and headers. I bought a heat shield for the starter and can't get that on either. It sucks! If money wasn't an issue I'd change to tri-Y headers or a set of the factory upswept manifolds from the early 60's 413 or 426 wedge engines. Having to change my starter would most likely involve unbolting the damn headers which after all these years would be a nightmare! By the way, the starter shield was the same material as the header wrap! Good Luck!!!
                      :lol::drinks::eek:
                       
                    • MoparLeo

                      MoparLeo NRA BENEFACTOR LEVEL LIFE MEMBER FBBO Gold Member

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                      I haven't seen anyone ask the most obvious question. What size battery do you have ? What is the CCA rating ? Heat = resistance. Longer the connection, the more resistance. Add heat and up it goes. All the recommendations are good. Grounds , wire gauge, type of connectors. If the screw on type, junk poor connection. You want to get a 850-1000 CCA rated battery. Trucks mostly use a Group 65. 11:1 Why ? Is it a street car or a race car. The 2 seldom are happy together. Race cars don't make happy street cars.
                       
                    • 66Satellite47

                      66Satellite47 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                      #2 cable from the trunk to the starter may be too small I use 0 or 00. Where do you attach the ground cable. My ground cables attach in the trunk with good bare connections. Also have a block to firewall ground strap in the engine compartment. Your battery may be to small. Big CCA batteries are good. The starter sure could be the issue. Solenoid contacts do wear and start to do weird stuff.
                       
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