Alternative carbs and linkage for max wedge?

[fmahannah]

I am tired of trying to get my original Carter 3705 carbs to work correctly and will send them out to be restored.

Mancini sells a crossram kit with the intake and edelbrock carbs, but I don't need the intake.

If I wanted to run Edelbrocks or some other carbs for now, which ones would you recommend and where can I get all the correct linkage adaptors needed? This is for a factory max wedge intake.

Or, please forgive me for even asking, but has anyone found a dual EFI setup that worked for a max wedge?

Thanks
Forrest

 

[Dragon Slayer]

I don't think edlebrock would be any better if structurally your 3705 are to original spec and not modified by a previous owner. They were designed for the car manifold wrt distribution. Modern EB are not going to be the same. Maybe so other with MW experience can chime in.

 

[fmahannah]

This is the second set of 3705s I have tried. It might be that I used the jets and metering rods recommended in Dvoraks magazine article on max wedge carbs, but I don't know what the stock jets and rods should have been so I can try those. If anyone has correct specs for internal parts for these I would appreciate it.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

I picked up a pair of MW carbs at carlisle and did go through them and compared to what the Carter documentation shows.

Here is the Carb set up:
16-76 Both Step up rod (.0665” x .053”) Std (3705)
Jetting PS= Accelerator pump side; OP= opposite pump side
120-159 Secondary PS jet (.089”) was OP
120-171 Both Primary jet (.1065”)
120-176 Secondary OP jet (.0635”) was PS

Notice my secondary where opposite what the carter manual said.

Here is what Mopar Race manual said, but this is for racing.
Left Carb
Throttle Side Diaphragm Side
120-410 (.110) 120-407 (.107)
120-392 (.092) 120-365 (.065)
16-76 (.066 x .053) 16-76 (.066 x .053)

Right Carb
120-407 (.107) 120-407 (.107)
120-389 (.089) 120-365 (.065)
16-76 (.066 x .053) 16-76 (.066 x .053)

This is the Carter Documentation difference between the 3705s and the 3861.

16-39 Both Step up rod (.066” x .061”) Std (3861)
16-76 Both Step up rod (.0665” x .053”) Std (3705)
64-209 Accelerator pump early 3705
64-279 Accelerator pump Late 3705/3861
111-76 Pump arm 3 hole (3705)
111-96 Pump arm 4 hole (3705-A/3861)

120-159 Meter jet (.089”) Sec PS (3705-A/3861)
120-161 Meter jet (.104”) Primary Both (3705 Early/3861)
120-164 Meter jet (.0945) Sec OP (3861)
120-171 Meter jet (.1065”) Primary Both (3705-A)
120-176 Meter jet (.0635”) Sec OP (3705-A)

Lastly is making sure the venturi air bleeds and fuel bleed for idle, are correct and not modified. That is a little more involved.

So what is wrong too rich, too lean, fouling certain cylinder?

 

[fmahannah]

Thanks for the specs.

Original carbs had the mixture screws damage the ports (blown out) so I bought two used 3705s (after much searching) and used the bottoms from those and the tops from the originals to build two carbs.
I used the jets and rods recommended in Dvoraks article. Floats are new along with acc pumps etc. Original carbs had no issues other than too rich at idle and mix would not adjust well even though not
running off transfer slots. New builds mixture does adjust correctly.

Heads are redone by machine shop, ignition and distributor are new. Fuel pump is new.

In the garage it idles and revs fine. When I take it on the road there is nothing when you try to give it gas even gradually as far as power, have to crawl and baby it to get home, and by the time I get it home it is running rich enough that it smokes out the exhaust.
Not burning oil. Accelerator pump works at least in the garage when I pump the gas and watch it. Other than taking them back to original jets and rods I have no idea what to try.

 

[Dragon Slayer]

Sure that ignition system is right, I know you had issues with it earlier?

 

[fmahannah]

Sure that ignition system is right, I know you had issues with it earlier?

Yes it is all new but may not be adjusted right. Tried it with and without the vac advance hooked up. Static at 14. With vac adv at idle around 28.

Coil I thought was heating up and making it run rich but has been replaced. It did this in the garage idling. Now it does not do this idling any more but still can't drive it down the road.

Can only get it up to about 40 on the road. Any hard accel it will cough or stall. Driving me crazy

 

[fmahannah]

Specs from dvorak that I used:

Primary Jets .101”/.101” (.071”/.047” Rod)
Secondary Jets Throttle .089” Choke .077”

 

[Dragon Slayer]

That is a lot leaner at idle and mid range. Both primary jets are leaner and so are the rods.

 

[fmahannah]

OK I am searching for jets/rods more to stock specs, but if it is distributor related what would cause no power at all? I mean my wife's Focus could run circles around me in reverse ....

Original distributor was all rusted and touching the pickup (MSD). I replaced with another MSD but then it was pointed out that adjustable vac adv would help with idle on this low vaccum cam
so I bought a Summit as recommended here. Stock advance springs. New MSD 6AL box. New MSD coil (second one). New plugs, new wires, etc.

Thanks!

 

[VANDAN]

You could contact Rick, at A&A Transmission. I bought my complete set up from them, but I believe they also sell parts of it, as you need ?

 

[ruffcut]

Heres what I'm using on mine, a 500 inch race motor.
Notice I cut the bottom of the linkage.
And yes, Dan Dvorak sells the replacement linkage to convert Edelbrocks to work on the MW intake. ruffcut

 

[dadsbee]

The one I picked up with my '64 Dodge 440 has 1405's on it. Was told it ran good but have no real world experience myself.

 

[EARLY B]

I am tired of trying to get my original Carter 3705 carbs to work correctly and will send them out to be restored.

Mancini sells a crossram kit with the intake and edelbrock carbs, but I don't need the intake.

If I wanted to run Edelbrocks or some other carbs for now, which ones would you recommend and where can I get all the correct linkage adaptors needed? This is for a factory max wedge intake.

Or, please forgive me for even asking, but has anyone found a dual EFI setup that worked for a max wedge?

Thanks
Forrest

I run a pair of out of the box edlebrock 600 you need to cut the bottom of the linkage off to clear the top of the intake. I use the factory linkage. Car idles good and runs good on the street. car idles around 1000 rpm. you need a good converter to make it street friendly.
MSD distributor and control box. initial timing around 18 and full in at 34.

 

[Geoff 2]

Forrest.

Carter AFB carbs are about the most stable, reliable carb you can get. To have TWO sets that are giving problems would make them a contender for the Guinness Book of Records.
Now it is smoking again.
You said a new coil fixed the original smoking problem, which I never believed because coils do not cause blue smoke problems. [ I know that was your sincere belief, no problem with that ].

You need to remember that the cross ram manifold is tuned by runner length & plenum volume to work in a certain rpm range, which from memory was 3500-6500.

So it is going to feel dead-ish off idle & until it gets up to it's designed rpm range. No carb can fix that. The problem is the carb signal has to fight it's way through a huge volume of air...& it ain't liking it.

There are only three fixes I can think of:
- change to higher ratio rear axle so that you get to the power band quicker
- change to a street friendly intake.
- live with it.

 

[VANDAN]

Top end set, from A&A. 500+CI. 750s on top. No street use yet, but feeling pretty positive. Builder is Top Notch...

 

[fmahannah]

Heres what I'm using on mine, a 500 inch race motor.
Notice I cut the bottom of the linkage.
And yes, Dan Dvorak sells the replacement linkage to convert Edelbrocks to work on the MW intake. ruffcut
View attachment 1350130

Yes I knew there was a clearance problem but I thought that even if I cut them that the carbs would not hook up to the MW linkage without the replacement linkage, but I have not been able to find that linkage from Dvorak anywhere.
Do you know where I can find a link to it? Thanks

 

[fmahannah]

Forrest.

Carter AFB carbs are about the most stable, reliable carb you can get. To have TWO sets that are giving problems would make them a contender for the Guinness Book of Records.
Now it is smoking again.
You said a new coil fixed the original smoking problem, which I never believed because coils do not cause blue smoke problems. [ I know that was your sincere belief, no problem with that ].

You need to remember that the cross ram manifold is tuned by runner length & plenum volume to work in a certain rpm range, which from memory was 3500-6500.

So it is going to feel dead-ish off idle & until it gets up to it's designed rpm range. No carb can fix that. The problem is the carb signal has to fight it's way through a huge volume of air...& it ain't liking it.

There are only three fixes I can think of:
- change to higher ratio rear axle so that you get to the power band quicker
- change to a street friendly intake.
- live with it.

Rear is 3:55. It is not sluggish off idle it is just dead. Won't go over 40, if I try it stalls. When I first got the car it would fly but was way too rich at idle. New coil did stop the smoke at idle once temp was reached (like videos I posted). It still will not smoke at idle even at temp, tested this morning. Only after I try to drive it. Heads are rebuilt by machine shop, rings replaced, entire ignition system is new, so what does that leave other than some adjustments or changes to carbs or timing? Can't live with it the way it is, it is not driveable at all.

 

[fmahannah]

Top end set, from A&A. 500+CI. 750s on top. No street use yet, but feeling pretty positive. Builder is Top Notch...View attachment 1350215

Nice.

 

[ruffcut]

Yes I knew there was a clearance problem but I thought that even if I cut them that the carbs would not hook up to the MW linkage without the replacement linkage, but I have not been able to find that linkage from Dvorak anywhere.
Do you know where I can find a link to it? Thanks

That linkage came from A and A transmissions.