Aluminum head choice

[Mark1972]

440Source Stealth or Edelbrock E-Street heads for the 440 going into my street driven '70 Satellite?

I shouldn't be thinking this because my budget is going to hell, but I'm considering it because my 452 heads may require more work than I thought. A few more details below.
Block bored .030"
Align bored
Decked
Factory cast-iron crank ground .010" under
New SCAT H-beam rods
Keith Black pistons
1970 HP cast intake
1970 Carter AVS carb(650cfm)
Engine balanced
Doug's 2" headers
CompCams XE268H cam and lifters
Melling M63 HV oil pump and pick up
Carter M6903 fuel pump
ProBillet distributor
MSD wires
440Source 6 quart oil pan, windage tray.
727 tranny with 2400 stall
3.55 rear gear.
The KB pistons that were ordered, along with the decking and the chamber's of the 452 heads would have given my about 9.4-9.5/1 comp, with stock 88cc chamber's. The Stealth heads have 80cc, and the Eddie's have 75. My calculations tell me that compression ratio would grow to possibly 10-1 with the Stealth, and 10.5-1 the Eddie's. Now of course the head gasket thickness could be changed to alter this. If my math is wrong, then please correct me. I know the cast intake is going to be a bottleneck no matter what I do, but it's a pretty easy upgrade in the future. As is the Carter carb. I just can't afford to do everything right now. Maybe intake and carb in another year. So I would like some opinions. Thanks as always.

 

[440Coronet500]

Either of the heads you mentioned are better than the 452 heads. By the time you do the machining on the 452's you will have spent almost as much as the others! Not to mention the aluminum heads are much lighter. 440'

 

[4mulas]

Which ones do you think you want?

I’d lean to to higher compression

 

[PRHeads]

The real world flow tests show the 84cc E Street outflows the Stealth when both are tested ootb.

The 75cc E Street chamber has some valve shrouding that does affect the flow up to about the lift of your cam.
You get the compression, but without a little chamber massaging, you give up a little flow.

I would use the 84cc E Street over the Stealth.
I feel they come with superior parts, and they flow better.

 

[Mark1972]

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even see the 84cc option. I'll talk to my engine builder and make a decision this week. 84cc would put me around 9.7-1.

 

[gkent]

1) headers are too big and will cost you power
2) you don't need a HV oil pump and that will cost you power as well.
3) Keep the 452's and only do basic work on them - valve job and "basic" port match
4) Spend the money you saved on a decent aluminum intake and a new carb - either an Eddy or a Holley.

 

[33 IMP]

Those aren't the reverse dome KBs are they? If they are, you will have to go with the open chamber rpm. I think E street and 440source are both closed chamber, and the reverse dome would hit.

 

[wyrmrider]

right what are the part numbers of the KB's Great observation 33 IMP
you can always trim the domes and depending on the deck clearance use a thicker head gasket- you do want to build with tight quench either way
and that cam will cost you power the Ultradyne 268 is a couple of years newer and better and the Lunati Voodoo 268 is a couple of years later than the Ultradyne and even better torque and Horsepower
The Comp HE 268 slams the valves shut which the 268 H doesn't and it's therefore the nosiest of the 3 mentioned
Lunati also has a non voodoo 268 same as chevy grind in their catalog and I would not use that one either

 

[PRHeads]

1) headers are too big and will cost you power
2) you don't need a HV oil pump and that will cost you power as well.
3) Keep the 452's and only do basic work on them - valve job and "basic" port match
4) Spend the money you saved on a decent aluminum intake and a new carb - either an Eddy or a Holley.

I didn’t catch the stock intake.
Those are huge power/flow killers.

I still wouldn’t spend a bunch of $$ on refurbishing the stock heads, so unless they could be made nicely serviceable for significantly less money than aftermarket heads....... I’d just use the aftermarket heads.

Yes, the 2” headers are too big, and no..... it doesn’t need a HV oil pump.

 

[Gpuller]

Just wondering if the H Beams rods are needed?

 

[gkent]

Just wondering if the H Beams rods are needed?

You’re using a cast crank so I’d say the rods are an unnecessary expense.

 

[threewood]

Stock intake and 650cfm carb? Is this needed to maintain stock fitting n96 fresh air hood?
KB 236 (stepped) or 237 (flat)?
How far are your pistons down in the bore?

I think either head will work for your application as long as you aren't using the 236 pistons. The Stealth heads springs, keepers and locks are good for stock lift. Stray too far and you should upgrade them.

I have Stealth heads on my 440 but they have been ported and worked over with all new hardware. Great value for a stock look with stock parts.

 

[Mark1972]

Everything I listed has already been purchased. There won't be any change in cam, header, intake, etc. Why the cast intake and Carter carb? Simple. Money. I got both for half the price of a Performer RPM intake, and that carb is rebuilt, intake blasted and coated. The Canadian dollar is junk right now, so when pretty much everything comes from the USA, you gotta save some money somewhere. One day, the intake and carb can be switched out and something else can go on. The 2" headers? The machine shop ordered them. The next time I speak with the shop, I'll ask why 2". I ended up going with the Edelbrock E-Street heads, with 75cc chambers. The shop said they will work fine. Once again, not a cost I saw coming. The shop said they have had to do work on most of the 440Source heads they've ordered. So Edelbrock was the choice. My old rods were junk, and the SCAT was recommended because the shop has used them often and had good results. Cost wise they weren't any more than anything else on Summit, give or take. I've decided to have the shop assemble and dyno the engine, so I'll have some numbers at some point. I'll certainly post them. When it's all said and done, I should have a good street motor with room to improve on the air/fuel delivery. The likelyhood of this motor seeing over 5500rpm is pretty slim. I'm sure it will make driving my '70 Satellite around more interesting. Thanks again for all the advice, questions, etc.

 

[JackpotJim]

Everything I listed has already been purchased. There won't be any change in cam, header, intake, etc. Why the cast intake and Carter carb? Simple. Money. I got both for half the price of a Performer RPM intake, and that carb is rebuilt, intake blasted and coated. The Canadian dollar is junk right now, so when pretty much everything comes from the USA, you gotta save some money somewhere. One day, the intake and carb can be switched out and something else can go on. The 2" headers? The machine shop ordered them. The next time I speak with the shop, I'll ask why 2". I ended up going with the Edelbrock E-Street heads, with 75cc chambers. The shop said they will work fine. Once again, not a cost I saw coming. The shop said they have had to do work on most of the 440Source heads they've ordered. So Edelbrock was the choice. My old rods were junk, and the SCAT was recommended because the shop has used them often and had good results. Cost wise they weren't any more than anything else on Summit, give or take. I've decided to have the shop assemble and dyno the engine, so I'll have some numbers at some point. I'll certainly post them. When it's all said and done, I should have a good street motor with room to improve on the air/fuel delivery. The likelyhood of this motor seeing over 5500rpm is pretty slim. I'm sure it will make driving my '70 Satellite around more interesting. Thanks again for all the advice, questions, etc.

The E Street Heads will work fine for what I would guess your rpm range (1500-5700 rpm) will be. I have a set of 75cc E Streets I use on a 383. Obviously you can look at purchasing a aftermarket aluminum intake down the road. Remember to check piston to valve clearance and remove the inner valve springs from the Edelbrock heads when breaking in the cam. I'm south of you in the Brainerd Lakes area in Minnesota.

 

[33 IMP]

I wouldn't worry greatly about "too big" headers. I've always managed to have too big headers (And mufflers and pipes) on my cars, and I can't say I've noticed any lack of performance, only lack of space working around them. The engine dyno test I saw with "way-too-big" headers, as part of a header test, gave up somewhere around 5hp and 10 tq. Bfd. I can't feel 10 ft/lb.in the seat of my pants, can you?

 

[Bee1971]

1970 Carter AVS carb(650cfm)

No such thing

You have a Carb # ? - Smaller primary throttle bores or are all four bores the same size ?

It’s either a 625cfm or a 750cfm found on most 440 HP

 

[Bee1971]

The E Street Heads will work fine for what I would guess your rpm range (1500-5700 rpm) will be. I have a set of 75cc E Streets I use on a 383. Obviously you can look at purchasing a aftermarket aluminum intake down the road. Remember to check piston to valve clearance and remove the inner valve springs from the Edelbrock heads when breaking in the cam. I'm south of you in the Brainerd Lakes area in Minnesota.

E Street Heads do not use a dual valve spring

They use part # 5792 Single Valve Spring with Dampner

 

[Mark1972]

Probably my mistake on CFM. Carter AVS 4732S. Apparently it came off a 383 from 1970. I was told 650, but can't confirm that. It appears to be the 625. Secondaries are a little bigger than the primaries. I just read the 750 has the same size. As I said earlier, it's a future upgrade. Right now for an RPM intake and Edelbrock carb, in my lousy currency, it's over $1200. Just can't justify it.

 

[JackpotJim]

E Street Heads do not use a dual valve spring

They use part # 5792 Single Valve Spring with Dampner

Mine do, (E Street, 75cc combustion chamber) Inner and outer valve springs. Came with instructions to remove inner valve spring for cam break in. Then reinstall after break in. Bought in 2019 from Summit.

 

[PRHeads]

E Street Heads do not use a dual valve spring

They use part # 5792 Single Valve Spring with Dampner

Yup.