Anyone use Victor heads on a mild 440?

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I'm interested in maximizing my power w/o the drama of a big, long-duration, high overlap camshaft. I really like the design features of the Victor heads - I'm brainstorming a combo based on the standard port version of them for my 440 to replace the ported 906's I currently have. Thinking of having Bullet cut a custom TLSR for it. I'd like something I can cruise on the street in overdrive w/ at 1300 rpm w/ little to no bucking, while surprising people at the power available from a stock-ish idle.

Anyone done anything like this here?

 

[Budnicks]

If your going with a STD port version I would just go with the Performer RPM's or the E-Street 440 they are cheaper than the Victors & come as a complete assembly... Unless your looking for a smaller combustion chamber, & larger raised intake & exhaust ports a mild 440 dose not really require the extra expense of the Victors to drive around at a cruise RPM of 1300rpm... You can do it, they will work it just won't be very cost effective for the usage & expense for specialty part... With the raised exhaust ports you may run into clearance issues with exhaust & manifolds... Just my opinion

 

[1stBxMopar]

You might want to give the Indy EZ heads a look, they'll work fine in your application and can be upgraded to achieve different levels of power if you want to go faster down the road...

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

If your going with a STD port version I would just go with the Performer RPM's or the E-Street 440 they are cheaper than the Victors & come as a complete assembly

Remember, the 'standard port' Victors are not the same as the 'standard port' stock type ports...this is why the Victors necessitate the offset intake rocker. Also have an advantage of the roof relative to the valve and a better short side radius. I'd also never put a 'complete' head on an engine w/o changing at least springs and checking the valve job.

... Unless your looking for a smaller combustion chamber, & larger raised intake & exhaust ports

Bingo...this is exactly what I like about them.

You can do it, they will work it just won't be very cost effective for the usage & expense for specialty part... With the raised exhaust ports you may run into clearance issues with exhaust & manifolds...

Ya know, I see this a lot, and I'm still not sure where people get this impression of them being so expensive. I plan to upgrade to a roller rocker w/ whatever heads I get, and my car is in desperate need of new exhaust anyway...so these are expenses I'd incur regardless. I guess it's the people who aren't essentially starting from scratch?

You might want to give the Indy EZ heads a look, they'll work fine in your application and can be upgraded to achieve different levels of power if you want to go faster down the road...

I looked at the EZ's, but imo they seem expensive by comparison...

Thanks guys.

Ultimately I'm looking at the Victors because the design should allow me to get away w/ running a smaller camshaft than normally thought acceptable to retain docile manners but still produce HP. To get the same amount of HP from a stock replacement head, I'd have to compromise on idle and driving manners, which I'm not willing to do.

So no one's done this?

 

[Budnicks]

C Perryman Good luck, it looks like "your definitely not" the typical cheap *** engine builder that tries to save every penny instead of using quality parts, I've kind of been accused of just throwing money at projects, (I'm really a poor boy that really won't compromise on parts) that's kind of the reasoning, of why I was throwing out the other options, most people don't think like that... Yes your 100% correct if your starting from scratch you will need to get most all of those parts anyway, so it will be a nominal extra expense, for the specific parts needed, the cost of the Eddy Victor casting aren't cheap but they are quality pieces, to build around, sounds like your building a street stormer, pavement pounder, "with good manners"...LOL... if there is such a thing anyway... Those heads are capable of making some serious HP/TQ numbers... I've used them in the Max Wedge versions on a race engine 8.58 et 156mph in a 68 RR, 3520lbs, 4.15" stroker, w/big roller, 727 auto w/175K 3800stall on 3.73:1 gears, Cal-Tracs & drag radials, with some occasional minimal street cruise miles, but never on my real street combo's... Keep us posted on your results... Sounds like a blast

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

sounds like your building a street stormer, pavement pounder, "with good manners"...LOL... if there is such a thing anyway... Those heads are capable of making some serious HP/TQ numbers... I've used them in the Max Wedge versions on a race engine 8.58 et 156mph in a 68 RR, 3520lbs, 4.15" stroker, w/big roller, 727 auto w/175K 3800stall on 3.73:1 gears, Cal-Tracs & drag radials, with some occasional minimal street cruise miles, but never on my real street combo's... Keep us posted on your results... Sounds like a blast

Ha, yeah, I've spent too much time around late model cars that make in excess of 600 rwhp w/ stock-like driveability for the last 10 years (turbo small block fords and big na/nitrous LS-based motors)...so my intent is to apply what I've learned from them on this build. Still a couple years away, as the car needs work too, but I think I'm coming closer to a plan that will meet my goals.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Budnicks]

Good luck in your further pursuit of the ultimate performance perfection, Happy Moparing

 

[IQ52]

If you are willing to go with the offset rockers and the raised ports, the Victors are an excellent choice for your application. In fact they are exactly the choice I would recommend. In box stock form they will outflow all but the very best ported 906 heads, and later, if you want, you can have the Victors ported to really scream. I know of one 470/400 just completed that use a small solid roller and stock Victor heads and made 600 HP @ 5700 rpm, 600 TQ @ 4000 rpm, 590+ TQ 3000-5100 rpm.

 

[Budnicks]

IQ52 those are great numbers did Cody do the heads?

 

[IQ52]

No Budnicks, it was not our build. No one has wanted to pay for a street motor with the Victors yet. Though we do get 642hp @ 5800rpm and 642tq @ 4600rpm with the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads on a 496ci and 91 octane. 600+tq from 3500-5500rpm & 600+hp from 5100-6000+rpm.

 

[Budnicks]

Good showing

No Budnicks, it was not our build. No one has wanted to pay for a street motor with the Victors yet. Though we do get 642hp @ 5800rpm and 642tq @ 4600rpm with the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads on a 496ci and 91 octane. 600+tq from 3500-5500rpm & 600+hp from 5100-6000+rpm.

Those are great street-able or race-able torque #s, I personally really like the RPM's after using several different CFM porting levels of them on my personal projects, Great middle of the road in cost/performance levels for aluminum heads, I still think the Victors are a very good option if you are willing to spend the extras for specific parts needed, they have great HP/TQ potential...

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

If you are willing to go with the offset rockers and the raised ports, the Victors are an excellent choice for your application. In fact they are exactly the choice I would recommend. In box stock form they will outflow all but the very best ported 906 heads, and later, if you want, you can have the Victors ported to really scream. I know of one 470/400 just completed that use a small solid roller and stock Victor heads and made 600 HP @ 5700 rpm, 600 TQ @ 4000 rpm, 590+ TQ 3000-5100 rpm.

Hmmm...sounds promising. I'd even be willing to trade some of the tq around 3k for a bit more rpm capability...

Can you define 'small' cam? More details if ya got 'em please!

 

[IQ52]

Well, I know it was a Lunati VooDoo solid roller. Knowing what the stock Victors are capable of and what he got from the 470 I believe that the smallest cam he used was the 60332, 273/279 advertised 243/249 @ .050 .578/.585 lift and the biggest would have been 279/285 advertised 249/255 @ .050 .585/.600 lift. I used the larger of the two, the 60333 in the 496 that made 642hp/642tq. Now that I've made my guesses, I'll see if I can get him to tell me the exact cam he used. Question is on it's way, we'll see what happens. He may even answer himself if he is monitoring this forum. He's a pretty cool guy.

 

[raw untamed]

Yes, you are correct IQ52.

The 470 you're talkiing about uses the Voodoo 60333, and hughes aluminum 1.6 rockers. Mike Liston at MRL Performance built this engine for me and my 71 Challenger.

There's still a lot more room to go with the Victor heads, but I wanted something I could take around town and on road trips with the fam. The car will also be used on the road course once I get it going.

 

[IQ52]

Interesting that this should be brought back up a year later. I just tested the latest 440 Victor standard port head last night. On our bench the flows differ quite a bit from that which Edelbrock advertises. I have included the Indy EZ head as measured on our bench.

Lift.........as advertised I/E....as measured OOTB I/E.........OOTB Indy EZ

.100...............85/63...........................66/59.....................69/61
.200.............150/118........................126/117..................129/103
.300.............211/160........................187/167..................188/146
.400.............261/189........................240/200..................236/190
.500.............298/207........................285/217..................281/224
.600.............322/219........................313/224..................308/247
.700.............325/226........................312/227..................318/253

I used a 2" pipe on the Edelbrock and Indy exhaust and I have no idea if Edelbrock used a pipe or no, I suspicion they did not.

 

[67 B-body]

I run the "Victor" design with a MP 590 cam and 1.6:1 rockers....
It has good street characteristics, and plenty of power.... My compression is a bit high, but for whatever reason, it runs on 93 octane and a bottle of Booster without any noticeable pre ign (ping). It will have a bit of run-on if the idle is high with the lower octane, and goes away on Av-Gas. Lowering the idle a bit, or shutting down while in gear eliminates this.
I have .140" domed forged pistons in mine with .040" thick head gasket, pistons are about .020" down in the hole, and the heads are 72cc. This nets somewhere around 13.5:1 compression. A set of flat tops @ 0 deck height would still be enough for a mild mannered street bruiser IMO.
I used standard TTI headers on mine in a 67 Satellite and the collectors flange would just touch one of the torsion bars (passenger side) when the engine shakes at low idle in gear. I just ground out a clearance on the flange to eliminate this.
A ten second street car is what I was working towards, and I have it with this setup.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Reason you can get by with it is cause your dynamic compression is around 7.6:1.

I run the "Victor" design with a MP 590 cam and 1.6:1 rockers....
It has good street characteristics, and plenty of power.... My compression is a bit high, but for whatever reason, it runs on 93 octane and a bottle of Booster without any noticeable pre ign (ping). It will have a bit of run-on if the idle is high with the lower octane, and goes away on Av-Gas. Lowering the idle a bit, or shutting down while in gear eliminates this.
I have .140" domed forged pistons in mine with .040" thick head gasket, pistons are about .020" down in the hole, and the heads are 72cc. This nets somewhere around 13.5:1 compression. A set of flat tops @ 0 deck height would still be enough for a mild mannered street bruiser IMO.
I used standard TTI headers on mine in a 67 Satellite and the collectors flange would just touch one of the torsion bars (passenger side) when the engine shakes at low idle in gear. I just ground out a clearance on the flange to eliminate this.
A ten second street car is what I was working towards, and I have it with this setup.

 

[benno440]

can you use any normal 440 intake on victor heads? i might have to update my stealth heads on my 505"

 

[67 B-body]

can you use any normal 440 intake on victor heads? i might have to update my stealth heads on my 505"

Yes....

 

[383man]

Just seems like the Victors are overkill for what you want. But nothing wrong with using them if thats what you want. I got my EZ heads for a very good price from Dwayne Porter as they were only about $200 more then the Eddy RPM heads. Ron