Are These Springs OK for My Cam?

PurpleBeeper

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I got a deal on some E-Street Edelbrock heads (part# 5093/84cc ). They cam with these springs (Edelbrock part# 5792).

Edelbrock recommends the Performer RPM #7194 cam for these heads, BUT I'm considering running either the Comp Cams XE274 or the XE274HL (leaning towards the XE274HL). This engine will be a long-distance cruiser 440 cubic inch. Are these springs OK for the cam I want to run? Thank You!

SPRING SPECIFICATIONS.
non-rotator
seat pressure = 140 lbs.
Installed Ht. = 1.880"
Open Pressure = 307 lbs. @ .500" lift
O.D. = 1.550"
I.D. = 1.120"
Coil Bind = 1.160"
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/cylinder-heads/dl/valve-springs-retainers.pdf


Camshaft: Performer RPM (CAM EDELBROCK RECOMMENDS FOR MY SPRINGS)

Part #: #7194

Vehicle Type: CHRYSLER

Engine Application: 383-400-440 V8

RPM Range: 1500-6500

DURATION AS ADVERTISED INTAKE: 300° EXHAUST: 308°
DURATION @ .050 INTAKE: 238° EXHAUST: 246°
LIFT @ CAM (Lobe) INTAKE: 0.32" EXHAUST: 0.33"
LIFT @ VALVE INTAKE: 0.48" EXHAUST: 0.495"
LOBE SEPERATION: 110° INTAKE CENTERLINE: 105° IDLE VAC @ 1000 RPM: 10"
dia.gif

The information below is for verification of
opening and closing events.
INTAKE TIMING @ .050" LIFT: Opens: 14° BTDC
Closes: 44° ABDC
EXHAUST TIMING @ .050" LIFT: Opens: 58° BBDC
Closes: 8° ATDC

MY 2ND CHOICE FOR A CAM
Part Number: Grind Number:
3gxhwlwd.bmp

Lifter Type:
Engine Family: Chrysler 383-440 C.I. 8 CYL. 1959-1980
Description: HYDRAULIC • High Performance Street • Very Strong Mid-Range w/ Headers • 2200+ Stall
Cam Family: Xtreme Energy™ Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Specifications Intake Exhaust
RPM Range: Valve Lash:
Valve Timing: Duration:
Lobe Separation: Duration @ .050" Lift:
Intake Centerline: Valve Lift:
Lobe Lift:
Valve Timing @ 0.006 Lift:
Exhaust
Closes 29
ATDC
Opens 77
BBDC
106
spec-card-valve-timing.jpg

Intake
31 Opens
BTDC
63 Closes

MY 1ST CHOICE FOR A CAM

Part Number: Grind Number:
3gxhwlwd.bmp

Lifter Type:
Engine Family: Chrysler 383-440 C.I. 8 CYL. 1959-1980
Description: HYDRAULIC • Best All Around Street Performance Cam • 9:1 Compression w/ 2500+ Stall • Extra Lift For Upper RPM Power
Cam Family: Xtreme Energy™ Hi-lift Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts
Specifications Intake Exhaust
RPM Range: Valve Lash:
Valve Timing: Duration:
Lobe Separation: Duration @ .050" Lift:
Intake Centerline: Valve Lift:
Lobe Lift:
Valve Timing @ 0.006 Lift:
Exhaust
Closes 30
ATDC
Opens 78
BBDC
106
spec-card-valve-timing.jpg

Intake
32 Opens
BTDC
64 Closes
 

wyrmrider

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so two chevy cams and one for MOPAR
one at least a 50 year old design that's really gentle so few warranty problems and can be installed under a shade tree
springs should be fine
more important to dial in the rocker geometry
 

lewtot184

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the problem will be rocker ratio. safe bet is the lower lift cam. because edelbrock says the springs will take .600" lift doesn't mean they'll work well with it.
 

5.7 hemi

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You should use the springs that Comp recommends, should be a dual spring.
 

PurpleBeeper

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I'm hoping the valve springs I have on the E-streets will be OK with either of these cams since I'm building a low budget street motor. I have a XE274 in my current motor and it performs very well, BUT I still have the old Direct Connection "green stripe" dual springs on those heads & they seem to be wiping the cam. The Chevy grind seems to work well in my current motor.

Smaller cam, dual springs wiping my current XE274 and no plans to ever rev above 6000rpm has me looking more at single springs.....like the ones on the E-streets. I will be running 2.76 gears, 4spd & no overdrive on 26.5" tires.

I considered running the cam recommended by Edelbrock, but it is huge....like 300 duration or something & with 2.76 gears + power brakes, that doesn't make sense to me. I pulled out a 292/509 purple shaft cam from my current motor due to low vacuum, so 300 duration (& likely more overlap) doesn't seem smart.

for the XE274, Comp Cams recommends one of two springs:

1. 911-16 Single Outer Valve Springs: 1.524" O.D., 1.110" I.D.
2. 925-16 Dual Valve Springs: 1.509" O.D. Outer, .697" I.D. Inner

for the XE274HL, Comp Cams recommends one of two different valve springs:
1. 924-16 Dual Valve Springs: 1.509" O.D. Outer, .697" I.D. Inner
2. 26120-16 (Single)Beehive™ Valve Springs: Top 1.095" O.D., .650" I.D.; Bottom 1.445" O.D., 1.000" I.D.
spring rate = 370 lbs./in
seat load = 155 @ 1.880"
open load = 377 @ 1.280"
 

PurpleBeeper

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the problem will be rocker ratio. safe bet is the lower lift cam. because edelbrock says the springs will take .600" lift doesn't mean they'll work well with it.

Lew, can you elaborate on "the problem will be rocker ratio"? I was planning to run stock, non-adjustable rocker arms on this street motor.
 

wyrmrider

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I do usually use dual springs
Isky 6005 or 8005 with adjusted height to get where I want to be
that does not mean the edelbrock would not work
That's a fairly recent master so it should be asymetrical and easier on the close than older cam practice
We do have several posters here that do run that cam
There is also a thread somewhere where they had trouble getting past 5700 and went to solids- I think that was POP's engine
Forget the old universal cam- you can buy it for $30 Edebrock charges way too much for something that is no better than a stock magnum cam
I would go with the HL- seems as if you have a handle on the springs
I doubt it's the green stripes that are wiping cams
Edelbrock is using .004 for seat duration not .006 like comp and it's a lazy cam that does not begin to use the MOPAR size lifter
 

lewtot184

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Lew, can you elaborate on "the problem will be rocker ratio"? I was planning to run stock, non-adjustable rocker arms on this street motor.
all the adjustable rockers I've used or tested have a ratio higher than advertised which means more lift at the valve that can create spring issues. if your running stamped rockers (don't get bambuzzled with the 1.38:1 ratio hype or the .904 lifter hype) use the 274xe cam. the edelbrock springs will work fine with this set-up. you'll have long term reliability for road trips and less maintenance. the 275hl with a higher than stock ratio rocker should use the 924 spring but break in would need the inner spring removed. I don't use 911 springs anymore. the edelbrock cam is a gentle cam, should be reliable, but probably more duration than you would want for a tall geared cruiser.
 

wyrmrider

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in the POPs thread they had a problem with too much free space before coil bind at full lift so they shimmed up the spring

let's get something straight about these Comp Cams
the XE284H same as SBC grind actually works harder on a smaller radius of the MOPAR tappet than the HL cam
just because it is lower lift does not mean that it is any easier on the springs etc- in fact it's harder on them than it needs to be
I do'nt remember your details as you started a new thread
but you might also consider the 275HL which I would prefer over the Chevy grind if the lift of the 285 bothers you- see the comment about dist to coil bind
or the 275 with 1.6 rocker on the intake
If I remember correctly (doubtful) the 285 may be too big (either one of them) for your build
I would hope that some users of these 275-285 would chime in

lewtot the Edelbrock cam is way out of date, is gentle but you give up a lot, it is reliable but since is it also is working harder on a smaller part of the lifter the savings is illusionary They had to run that much duration back then to get the lift up and gentle because the springs were not what they are today as far as life goes
 

PurpleBeeper

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I do'nt remember your details as you started a new thread
Well, I'm building a highway cruiser 440 on the cheap with as many stock/used parts as I can & 2.76 gears since I can't afford a Kessler or Gear Vendor. I plan to drive the car cross-country with the family & pull out (at least temporarily) my old street racer motor. I have a 4spd & nitrous I don't want to take off (though don't plan to use it much anymore).

I fell into a good deal on some E-street heads that were cheaper than I could rebuild iron heads for. I found a '70 440 block for $200 and a stock crank drilled for a 4spd for $125. I got some stock rockers/shafts for $50, bushed LY rods with ARP bolts for $80, timing cover for $10, valve covers for $20....I think you get the picture. I plan to lay out $600+ for some Icon 2318 forged pistons already cut for larger valves & $265 for pan/pickup/windage/oil pump from Mancini & buy a new cam/lifters. If they seem reasonable, I'm looking at the stock-type 5/16" pushrods from 440source, their balancer and ARP bolts on mains/heads & I plan to use the electronic distributor/MSD ignition/MSD coil/1-3/4" Heddman headers (if they clear #6 angled plug)/power steering/alternator & 6-pack off my current motor. The car has power brakes. I'm trying not to rob too much off the current motor & keep it mainly complete to use as a backup and/or for a future build.

Now, I'm trying to see if I can use the springs on the E-street heads to save money & find a cam small enough to work with the 2.76 gears without frying my clutch. This is an all-steel heavy convertible. I would like to be able to take advantage of the larger valves & maximize my horsepower BUT only as much as my combination will allow.

I'm running a XE274H cam now & it seems pretty tame compared to the purple shaft 292/509 I pulled out. I'm sort of using this cam as a benchmark. My 3rd member with 2.76's will be done this week & my plan is (based on a good suggestion on this board), to test how it runs/feels with my current engine....maybe it's too big? I've also noticed that I'm wiping the lobes on this cam and I think it's because I still have the direct connection green stripe double springs in the current motor and/or didn't break it in properly. This makes me think I might be better off with single springs (low rpm motor anyway).

I've always been under the impression that drivability/high vacuum was related more to the duration of the cam than the lift, which is why I'm considering the XE274HL (XE275HL ?) figuring if the car runs OK with the XE274H and 2.76's, maybe I can get a little more lift. I also started looking at some Lunatti and Hughes cams today. I did notice the recommended springs for these two Hughes cams are pretty close to the specs on the springs that came with the E-street heads which are 140 lbs seat pressure at 1.880"installed height and 317 lbs. at .500" lift.

SEH1620BL.jpg
SEH1620BL.jpg


What do you guys think about these cams? SEH1620BL.jpg whoops, copied the first one twice
 
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wyrmrider

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you already have the 274 chevy grind and it's working ok
10 more degrees- wellI would not do it with 2 series gears + towing passing might be better but starting up a hill would not
you want to do something stick some 1.6 rockers on the intakes only
no need for a new cam if yours is in good shape if not get the HL
 

wyrmrider

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so which cam did you post up I do not recognize that part number but I am not a big Comp Cams fanboy
I do see where the .050 timing given is not much different than the factory magnum cam
what did the compression come out on the new heads
were you the one that cc'd them and found smaller chambers
have these been run check the guides and concentricy in any case
too bad your existing cam is a chevy profile- most likely not enough meat to touch it up (reliably)
 

wyrmrider

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Barney's Mopar Purple Power Plus use the same ramps as the New Nostalgia Plus ™lobes but have more velocity for use with Chrysler/Mopar .904" minimum tappet diameters.
New Nostalgia Plus profiles are slightly slower off the seat than the Xtreme Energy™profiles but have excellent area under the curve for outstanding power
Extreme Energy have A faster intake valve opening increases engine vacuum and enhances throttle response.
Faster ramps achieve maximum velocity sooner, increasing the area under the lift curve and providing maximum horsepower.
so as I stated earlier there are several ways to make a MOPAR- same ramps but get more velocity by using more of the lifter
or
Xtreme Mopar Hydraulics are optimized for use with .904" minimum tappet diameters. The additional velocity allowed with the Chrysler/Mopar .904" tappet
results in more area and lift than any of our other comparable hydraulic designs. These are the best large tappet hydraulics ever.( for Comp anyway- what took them so long?
need something shorter than 274 @.006
get
XTREME MOPAR HYDRAULICS (.904" MIN. TAPPET)
Xtreme Mopar Hydraulics are optimized for use with .904" minimum tappet diameters. The additional velocity allowed with the Chrysler/Mopar .904" tappet
results in more area and lift than any of our other comparable hydraulic designs. These are the best large tappet hydraulics ever.

need something shorter than 274 @006 check out http://compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/CamLobeMasterCatalog.pdf pg 17
XTREME 4X4 HYDRAULICS (.904" MIN. TAPPET)250-266 @.006
The Xtreme 4x4 for .904" are similar to the XE Mopar .904" designs but optimized for AMC I6 off-road applications for great torque, responsiveness and a
wide power range. For use with .904" or larger OD hydraulic tappets and 1.948" or larger journal diameter.
Slightly softer off the seat than the XFI .842" series
but with greatly increased area for a given seat timing by taking advantage of the larger .904" tappet.
Quiet, stable and great torque.

I like Mike Jones asymetrical short MOPAR grind and Engles .904 masters there are others from Howards and Ultradne etc
 

Lelo 500

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The XE274H can use the 911-16 springs which are similar to the Edelbrock springs and should work fine. The XE275HL requires the 924-16 springs which are dual springs.
 

wyrmrider

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The problem I have with the Hughes cam specs is that they do not give the duration at .004 (like Crane or SAD) or .006 so it is real hard to tell what seat timing is and when valves really open or close
IMHO he is about two sizes two - three sizes to big for those gears and towing with a fully loaded ride
Think of trying to do what he is trying to do with a magnum cam or the 268 even Purple Shaft both of which are smaller that those he is looking at
I hope he cc's his heads and gets an accurate compression ratio for starters- or did he do that already- someone just did but way past my pay grade to keep track of it.
I like what they did with "POPS" 9:1 Bonneville motor
I would not go over 260 with a chevy grind or 256 with a MOPAR grind @.006 9:1 tight quench
 
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