ATF cooling: Is the radiator cooler adequate?

[Kern Dog]

Since I swapped from the 318 to the 440, I have used an external ATF cooler. Currently I have a 1970 Charger with a 440/493 and a Griffin radiator without an internal cooler.
I am converting to A/C and part of the project includes a radiator swap. The new radiator has a cooler built in but I am wondering if it is enough. I do not drag race the car, I run on the street mainly but do plan to run it on a road course in the future. I have considered running the ATF lines to allow the fluid to pass through the external cooler as well as the radiator. If I do this, should it be routed so that the fluid passes through the radiator first? Which line on the trans is the discharge and which is the return line?
Thanks.

 

[PP1RT]

Cooler in the radiator should be quite adequate. The problem with them is usually after trans problems crap gets caught in there restricting flow. With a new radiator you should be fine. JMHO

 

[67belvedere/225]

rad first then cooler always , that how I have mine set up
the other way just would cool it then heat it up again

 

[1967coronet440]

B&m has a nice offering for an external cooler, well worth the $60 IMO

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/60382/10002/-1

 

[Kern Dog]

That looks nicer than the external one I've been using.

 

[oldbee]

Also always have to remember the rad.cooler was for a stock engine. You start “upping” the power,etc it may not be enuf.

 

[1967coronet440]

The super cooler line is pretty nice, let me look up the part number for the one I have I believe it’s a bit more expensive than that one but it came with my trans.

 

[1967coronet440]

Here’s the one I have on my transbrake 727

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...nbBY8Xhvu1PW5W0j9NG6UnayqJMrasd8aAhbqEALw_wcB

 

[400sforever]

I'm running my 600 horse 440 through the radiator cooler only. Its a stock radiator restored by glen ray and it's a drag car if that tells you anything! A secondary cooler definitely wouldn't hurt tho In my opinion

 

[Mike67]

I bought the Derale with the fan and an extra deep pan... Down here the summers are so hot I don't want to add heat to the rad and I want to make sure that the trans is cooled even in slow traffic.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/13...MI8abs6caQ2gIVmUwNCh0aHQGOEAQYASABEgJRRPD_BwE

 

[wyrmrider]

Kern Dog- always enjoy your posts
stock coolers come in several sizes- only the biggest works
that said return is in the rear of the trans
Do you do hills in the Summertime? or tow or both?
worse is stop and go- working the converter with little airflow with the AC ON
We did testing for Chrysler and it helps to run a spoiler/ valance under the cor support or bumper and plug all the holes in the core support
check your tubing- it it's 5/16- well go to half inch oil proof hose- there's a reason Mom mopar did with the Diesels and V10
I'd also run the external cooler- that's all I run- no in the tank but you can run through the tank one first if you want
I had 3 temp gauges and 3 pressure gauges and here's what we found
replacing either cooler line with half inch cut back pressure at the tailshaft by 15 lbs, removing the in rad cooler cut 15 lbs (and that was compared to stock 3/8 line)
much more flow
I'm running a serpentine belt with the reverse 9 blade 2 1/2 inch pitch fant fan replacing the earlier 7 blade 3 inch pitch fan (way too noisy when fan clutch engaged which was at every light) later clutch cuts in at 195 degrees instead of 185 so it cuts in much less often
I also run a couple of pusher fans- which actually help the AC in stop and go If I use the electric fans the electric fans the clutch fan hardley ever comes on except when towing in hot weather-- Electric only does not work in Hot Calif Hilly days with a load or bumper to bumper uphill
on a hot day put a big shop fan in front of a hot car and turn it on and watch the temp of the AC output drop and AC head pressure drop
I use the approx 12x12 Borg warner canada plate and fin cooler that has 1/2 inch in and out take a look at the EMPI website- they have a picture
or score a cooler from a Big Ford Truck - V10 Ford has awesome coolers and the pick a part price is right
PP1RT nailed it- I have a transdapt adapter inline before the cooler with a standard oil filter on it Wix says oil filter is fine for tranny fluid
Run ATF+4 even if you do not have a lock up- or Redline the only thing better is Citgo Quatrasyn which is pricey and hard to find but I do recommend it for let's say snow plow guys in Minnesota
hope this give you something to chew on
next time you do your trans you can open up the oil passages and bigger fittings for more flow
cheers

 

[Kern Dog]

Holy crap, that was as if Budnicks wrote it! That guy can really go on and on with his posts here! Thank you for the detail.
I never thought of ATF+4. I have to run it in my daily 2007 Ram, good advice. I may eventually go with the Silver Sport 4L60 E 4 speed automatic but for now, I'm sticking with the 727.

 

[rlem1977]

Be careful running synthetic in a trans with some age/miles. The ATF+4 may find its way out through weak seals or gaskets. I'd stick with the Dexron for now. As far as trans cooling, the radiator only should be fine. If you decide to run an external trans cooler, routing is to the radiator first, then the cooler, back to the trans. If you're adding A/C, make sure to plan your external cooler mounting carefully as you will now have a condenser mounted in front of the radiator. Good luck with the mods and keep us updated with the progress.

 

[multimopes]

Hey Kern,
I love reading this stuff because I learn something new every day. I have a 440 very mildly over stock with a 727 w/ reverse manual valve body and B&M shifter. I spoke with several trans shops about cooling and everyone of them said the same thing: the cooler you can keep it the better. I blocked off the internal radiator trans cooler and ran an external one in front of the radiator. That was okay for a while and probably still is, however, I like a littler more insurance so I also installed a Derale deep pan with flow through cooling tubes. There is a spiral diffuser in each tube to swirl the air to aid cooling. The pan adds approx. 5 quarts to the fluid capacity which also helps the fluid stay cleaner. It also has a drain plug and bung for a temperature gauge so I installed a B&M gauge so I can monitor it. Works great! Stays nice and cool. The pan needs a spacer for the filter which is a little extra but it is a neat package. I will attach a picture of it from the front of the car. Beware that there could be a clearance issue if your car is lowered a lot. The picture distorts the actual distance and appears very low but from the rear it looks much less of a drop. I am sure you've seen many a car with a deep oil pan that sits much lower than my trans pan. I am very happy with it!

 

[Yatzee]

Max temp for a tranny is about 275 degrees before damage occurs but if I saw 250 I'd pull over. If an engine runs at 195-205 there's not much of a margin for cooling a tranny via the rad. External is the way to go but size can be an issue and mounting one in front of the rad presents it's own issues in engine cooling. The perfect spot for mounting a tranny cooler is just in front of the front cross member, on a slight slant, just below the front valance or bumper which puts it right in the "travelling" air flow. There's enough room above the cooler for a pair of small Spal fans. I've gone this route using a 24 x 6 Ford F150 cooler with the fans coming on at 215 degrees and off at 195. I use a dedicated controller with the sensor tee'd in on the return line. If the cooler can handle a tranny used on a vehicle rated for 35,000 lbs. towing I'm sure it will handle my tranny. On the highway the fans do not come on at all, in the city they start cycling ( as indicated by the small LED pilot light on the dash)so their definitely doing their job. The cooler? $35 at a pick and pull. A temporary temp monitoring gauge was attached to the return line for setup and it indicated an average 183 degrees under all driving conditions. Not bad considering the engine runs at 197 - 205. The installation was easy, out of sight and very capable. I run ATF+4, always have, always will.

 

[69b3rt]

Any kind of high stall converter needs an additional trans cooler. I sure ballooned my first 3500 stall converter.

 

[wyrmrider]

good tip on the cooler location but you have to have fans with that location as stop and go heat is considerable
you also have to check temp at the cooler line exit to get your converter temp pan is deceptively cooler
try switching your switch location and see if it makes a difference- after cooler temp location is a secondary consideration- well I guess both are
On my truck I have the trans cooler between the radiator and condenser as that was the only place it would fit

 

[67belvedere/225]

this is where I stuck mine , I'm not racing just like things cool. and I also ran the return line of my p.s. oil through a pipe in the front( seen in pic) of it all just to give that extra
they do sell ps oil cooler , I just did that cause I wanted to . here never gets really that hot , but if I was in south usa I would put a proper one

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Well for my 2-cents..... heat is the enemy of your automatic transmission & you can buy an aftermarket one for $40 at most parts stores. Why not? I got 250,000 miles out of my first (cough, Mustang) automatic transmission that I drag race with a 150 nitrous shot as well as drive daily to work. The trans cooler was the very first modification I did on that car.

 

[wyrmrider]

Factory dis similar with ps lines- it's just that small coolers are so available at pick a part
wish I had that much room but where would you stick an AC condenser
agree anything over what is it 215-220 degrees and you ATF life cuts in half with each additional 10 degrees
+4 may be better Citgo Quatrasyn will last 4 ever and is good well into 300 territiory I would think Redline +4 replacement similar
but why run that hot now small converter high stall at the drags- they do get hot and that's not good
on my motorhome I found 2 12x12 coolers all hooked up together from a big Ford...