BB camshaft recommendation

Engine, Trans & Driveline

  1. sneezi

    sneezi Active Member

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    hi guys
    I’m in Australia and building another 440 engine for my other 69 charger.
    I’m after camshaft specifications to suit my build, I have a blank cam and a camshaft grinder who can grind what I want.

    The combo is
    440 strokes to 493
    11.1 comp
    Stealth heads with port work flow 295@600
    6 pack induction but highly considering the FiTech 6 pack set up.
    I am fitting the HP cast iron manifolds which I have ported and ceramic coated with 2 1/2 or 3 inch exhaust
    Im trying to build a stock appearing engine and I don’t mind losing power.
    My plan is a solid flat tappet!!!!
    Behind this is a 727 with 3000 converter and 8 3/4 with 3.5 gears
    Thanks in advance
     
  2. biomedtechguy

    biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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    I like the 292/.509 hydraulic flat tappet cam.
    Having said that, I'm sure some of the cam wizards will chime in, and forum members can point you in the right direction as well.
     
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    • Jerry Hall

      Jerry Hall Well-Known Member

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      I too like the 509 cam.
       
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      • Curiousyellow71

        Curiousyellow71 Well-Known Member

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        What kind of profiles does your cam grinder offer? Their are a ton of different profiles out there. Two cams with the same .050 lift can have vastly different .006 lift advertised durations, and lift. Solid cams can run different profiles/intensity designed for the lifter diameter .842 (gm), .875(Ford) and .904 (mopar). Mopar grinds have more duration and more lift typically without as much seat duration. A generic grind...like for a GM's smaller lifter are very commonly marketed for other brands...including mopar. Most cams grinds also went to computer designed cams. Those are questions for your grinder....what do they offer? Other questions for you...are you trying to run vacuum brakes? What kind of idle quality are you looking for? Is it a"maximum effort" build where you are looking for the most out of your combo? Are you buying valves springs? As far as cam specs, it's common to run wide Lsa like 112 or 114+ with manifolds. A stroker will like more Lsa and more duration then a 440 so I would suggest 114. IMO.. I don't think overlap and narrow Lsa's are suitable for exhaust manifolds...its usually something you do with headers to promote scavenging.
         
        Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
      • sneezi

        sneezi Active Member

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        My cam grinder can do whatever I ask for.

        I would like to get the maximum out of this combo with the right grind cam.
        I’m not concerned about idle quality or vacuum

        My idea was to grind it 244,244@50
        114 lobe sep
        580-590 lift
        1.5 rocker ratio

        My other 440 combo has the Mopar 528 grind
        Has gone 12.1@112mph
        But I’m no expert, neither is my cam grinder with big block mopars

        Forgot to mention fuel is 98 octane
         
        Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
      • Curiousyellow71

        Curiousyellow71 Well-Known Member

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        LOL, there are engineering design limitations for a lobe. 244@.050 is likely to be more like .550-.565 even w a aggressive profile. 1.6s would be needed to get you to your lift goals. Howard's or Hughes engines offer about the most lift for duration. I don't know anything about your grinder and what grinds they can do. But one 244@ .050 cam can have 310 degrees at the seat while another has 270. Hopefully they can get you closer too 270. I'd suggest maybe running more exhaust duration. We run a 248/258 on 112, and a 253/264 solid also on 112. They may sound similiar but are Completely different grinds. One has .520 lift...the other .586 both with 1.5s. The smaller cam needs 1.7s to run with the .586 cam with 1.5s. I don't know if you have your rockers yet but see what your cam grinder can do first...then buy the rockers. More lift will produce the power along with more area under the curve with a aggressive profile. Keep in mind a bunch of seat duration likely won't help much...especially w manifolds. A asymmetric profile like a comp cams xe close the valve quicker to help make more torque. Imo It's the kind of profile I would look for...for your converter and gears.... if they can grind it.
         
        Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
      • andyf

        andyf Well-Known Member

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        You don't need a blank cam core and a cam grinder for that engine. Something off the shelf will be a lot cheaper and will work just fine. Exhaust manifolds really cause problems with cam selection, I learned that lesson about 20 years ago when I tried a bunch of cams in my Coronet. I found that the old Mopar .528 worked the best when corked up with HP manifolds. You might be able to find a set of lobes that even work better than the Mopar .528 but you'll spend a lot of time and money looking for them.
         
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        • andyf

          andyf Well-Known Member

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          • biomedtechguy

            biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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            @sneezi
            Have you heard of "been there, done that, got the T-Shirt"?
            THAT is AndyF!
             
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            • droptop

              droptop Well-Known Member

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              If you have power brakes you will not have enough vacuum at idle with the 509 cam. Been there, done that. Other wise, that would be a good cam for your needs.
               
            • biomedtechguy

              biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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              I can't disagree with that. Even with the 4 wheel disc brakes that I am about to install, I'm keeping the manual brakes, because I prefer the additional control, and I don't want to choose a cam based on how well it makes my brakes perform.
               
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              • sneezi

                sneezi Active Member

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                Andyf, That article was an interesting read but have to agree that the cams selected were quite different to each other which makes it difficult to pin down what the engine likes.
                To grind a cam from the blank is not expensive.

                curiousyellow71, I do have a basic understanding from what your saying lol
                Breaking it down
                244@50 and a few more degrees on the exhaust side
                270 at the seat if possible
                112 or 113 lsa
                580 lift with a 1.6 rocker
                 
              • sneezi

                sneezi Active Member

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                Droptop, is the 509 cam a hydraulic?
                 
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                • droptop

                  droptop Well-Known Member

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                  Yes
                   
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                  • BSB67

                    BSB67 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    The faster you move the valves, the more power it will make, generally speaking with a manifold motor. So you need to decide how aggressive you want to get. The more aggressive, the harder on parts. The 244° +/- 2° on the intake on a 114° is probably in the ball park. Maybe the Comp XTQ lobe, or ratchet up from there to GRI, MHF, or go to the MM lobe. Use a 1.6 rocker. Lash settings matter.
                     
                    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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                    • Curiousyellow71

                      Curiousyellow71 Well-Known Member

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                      Well said BSB67,
                      Sneezi,
                      Yes, that is what I was suggesting. Glad you have a sense of humor! Also a stroker engine needs more duration to pull in the same power band as smaller cubes. But if you run bigger durations on the same lsa that means more overlap. Overlap and back pressure from exhaust is bad. That is why wider Lsa is needed. With exhaust manifolds I would consider 114. If you thought you may want headers someday 112 is a compromise. When you get into aggressive profiles you will need heavier valve springs. Buying edm lifters will help get the cam oil. It is also getting to be a common practice to brake the cam in without the inner spring for 20 minutes....then put the inner back in....especially with a aggressive profile that requires more spring pressure.
                       
                      Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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                      • Jerry Hall

                        Jerry Hall Well-Known Member

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                        We put a Mopar Performance 509 in my buddy's 70 RR 440-6 4-speed, power brakes, steering and air grabber. Vacuum may be a little low, but there are no problems with the factory PB system which is bendix booster and 4 piston calipers with drums on the rear. 20190208_191545.jpg
                         
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                        • biomedtechguy

                          biomedtechguy Accelerati Rapidus Maximus FBBO Gold Member

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                          Another note on the 292/.509
                          I needed to replace the springs and lifters that were in the 440 from when I bought the car. I had a lifter collapse and "come back" but it happened again, kept ticking, and I knew that was a problem. Also, right about the time the power really started coming on the engine would fall on its face.
                          Turned out the springs were weak, open and closed. New locks, retainers, push rods, accompanied the CompCams hydraulic flat tappet lifters and "dual" springs (outer round w/inner flat spring assy). From that point on, 6,200 RPMs is what my 440 6bbl demands. Stock notched pistons and 452 iron heads, headers (TTi 1&7/8) and a FBO ignition system. I set the shift light at 5,800 and the rev limiter to 6,200. Before I had the limiter, whether I was launching, spinning the tires, or pulling WOT through the gears, the engine wants to rev, and I am NOT forcing the RPMs to climb. It's "insistent" that I let it wind.
                          The cam is the best explanation, along with the supporting hardware.
                           
                        • 68 HEMI GTS

                          68 HEMI GTS Well-Known Member

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                          I wouldn't put a .509 cam in a motor like that even if you paid me to use it. I think you need to pick the brains of someone who works with FAST type builds. You’re paying for the R&D they have already done on strokers with manifolds.
                           
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                          • sneezi

                            sneezi Active Member

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                            I really appreciate everyone’s input, I do have a better understanding!!
                            That’s why I have come here.
                            I will speak to my cam grinder and see what he has to say.
                             
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