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BB oil pump gear design.

Bighead440

Bighead440

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Minor question, but do "Ford" style gerotor gears move more oil than the MoPar usual kind? If you notice, the Milodon badass billet pump uses thinner but slightly larger diameter gears that they call "Ford" gears. These gears are more "spikey" instead of shorter/fatter rounded Chrysler gears. They used to claim less HP loss and more volume than a M-63HV, which I am fond of, with their external pickup systems. I saw a TRW oil pump gear kit for a regular-volume M-63 or OEM pump WITH the Ford style gears. Being the same thickness and diameter, I'm wondering if it would move more oil than the Chrysler gears do in a stock housing. Maybe with less HP loss than a HV? I like HV pumps with wide bearing clearances and thin oil (10w-30 etc.), and especially for a street engine with 1/2 or 3/4 grooved mains and internal oil pickup routing, this might be the trick. Anybody have any facts about the gear efficiency? Opinions? Thanks
 
I have no experience with those style rotors and really don't care because I think the HP gains - if any - would be virtually unmeasurable. But the fact is that the power is consumed by the volume of oil moved. If you increase the cavity size but keep rpm constant, the oil speed increases. If there are no increases in clearances within the motor, the result is an increase in pressure - which acts against the pump - therefore requiring more power to drive it. So I don't see how rotor design would make any difference.

On the other hand if all you're doing is running fluid through a pump with no resistance - say from one pail to another - then sure, you could probably make the claim that one design moved more oil than the other at the same power level.

I think its a law of physics that to get more of one thing you have to lose some of another. Maybe in different words !

Just my 2 cents.
 
Stanton said:
I have no experience with those style rotors and really don't care because I think the HP gains - if any - would be virtually unmeasurable. But the fact is that the power is consumed by the volume of oil moved. If you increase the cavity size but keep rpm constant, the oil speed increases. If there are no increases in clearances within the motor, the result is an increase in pressure - which acts against the pump - therefore requiring more power to drive it. So I don't see how rotor design would make any difference.

On the other hand if all you're doing is running fluid through a pump with no resistance - say from one pail to another - then sure, you could probably make the claim that one design moved more oil than the other at the same power level.

I think its a law of physics that to get more of one thing you have to lose some of another. Maybe in different words !

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Always wanting something for nothing! LOL. I was just hoping to boost the output of a used, regular sized housing. Not really concerned about power loss if it flows more oil, but was hoping it would possibly consume a tad less power than a M63HV. There has to be a reason Milodon utilized that gear design, I was thinking. Using "Ford" gears is not my idea of looking cool or being fast! HAHA
 
Maybe they used that design because its the least expensive to make or buy !!
 
mopar changed the TF oil pump wth he later one supposing to ne better
would be interesting to compare
this was in late 80's- 90s?
 
wyrmrider said:
mopar changed the TF oil pump wth he later one supposing to ne better
Click to expand...

I don't think "Mopar" changed anything. Most of the stuff they supplied was sourced from other manufacturers - including the high performance pumps. Case in point: they used to offer an oil pump spacer kit that had a 1/4" spacer and longer rotors (probably equivalent to the later HV pumps), this was marketed by Ramchargers.
 
Stanton said:
I don't think "Mopar" changed anything. Most of the stuff they supplied was sourced from other manufacturers - including the high performance pumps. Case in point: they used to offer an oil pump spacer kit that had a 1/4" spacer and longer rotors (probably equivalent to the later HV pumps), this was marketed by Ramchargers.
Click to expand...

I ran that kit back in the Direct Connection days. It was $23. Worked fantastic and had the $2 black spring (80lbs) included.
 
Gerotor set from a 40 year old pump I have...…...
upload_2020-3-30_11-47-54.png



Stanton said:
hey used to offer an oil pump spacer kit that had a 1/4" spacer and longer rotors
Click to expand...

Lol, just happen to have one of those...….
upload_2020-3-30_11-58-10.png
 
Why the hell would he be talking torqueflite pumps when the subject is clearly OIL PUMPS ?!?!? I though the TF stood for Top Fuel for lack of any other logical possibility !

Hey, what's everyone having for lunch? !!!
 
There are so many more important items in a build. Both from a power standpoint and a durability standpoint.
Doug
 
I mostly used the TRW high volume pumps in my bracket motors, I went with the Milodon dual external pump in my tube Arrow. The Milodon had different shaped rotors. Seems like the Melling has the same shape as the TRW. I agree with Doug, lots more things to consider in the oil system. Bearing clearance, rod side clearance mainly.
 
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