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Big block pulley sets with A/C and P/S Pictures anyone?

Kern Dog

Life is full of turns. Build your car to handle.
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Hey guys,
I am going to add A/C to my 440/493. It currently is NON A/C, the pulleys are stock for Non A/C too. The crank pulley is a 2 groove.
I see the factory setup for A/C uses a 4 groove crank pulley. 2 belts drive the A/C pump and alternator. I am wondering why the water pump and power steering pump are not on their own pulley and belt? Has anyone made this work? I am going to dig in my old photographs to see if I can find any cars that used a 3 groove deal. I think it looks neater.
Thanks...Greg
 
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This one has the arrangement I like. Mine will be using the aluminum Sanden compressor though.

440 Air 2.jpg
 
This one shows 2 belts for the A/C. I figure that the stock RV-2 pump provided enough resistance that they needed 2 belts to avoid slippage??
I also have the Saginaw P/S pump like this one.
440 w  Air C.jpg
 
This is one of the 4 groove setups. Note the idler pulley to the right of the alternator. I just wonder why they had a 3 and 4 groove arrangement. Why not build it as simple and light as possible? Fewer parts...less weight, cheaper to build.
440 Air 4.JPG
 
My car originally came with A/C and P/S (Saginaw). I installed the Sanden compressor after the original compressor was long gone.

20161228_190144.jpg AC4.jpg
 
Sanden compressors are great - nice tidy units. I cannot help with the Big Block stuff KD, as my A/C is on a small block.
 
Can't get any neater than a single serpentine, I know you haven't mentioned it but nows the time to think about it.
20160407_174639.jpg
 
I have a 400 with all that on it I'll be happy to snap, however...

You will likely be entering into what I like to call "pulley H E L L", if you are going to try to piece together what you need.

I've come to realize that every year has different components and the components are also different between A/C and non-A/C, IE every year has two completely different sets of pulleys and spacers, and they don't mix and match well.

The best bet would be to find a donor with everything and take everything.

Even the water pump is different some years, not just the impeller blades, but the distance of the shaft, which places the grooves on the pulley in the wrong place!
 
Maybe a try looking into something like this......

0F2253CD-B506-4BFD-AA41-CAD8BC71F202.jpeg 3148377A-D1F3-4051-857C-7CE7A3865B12.jpeg 2B594378-600E-407D-A1E5-7E74C8E911A6.jpeg 48C92413-1AB1-45C0-8C2E-21B17D28EF03.jpeg
 
Kern, I've done this. Used OEM pulleys with the Classic air kit. You will need a different upper bracket for AC compressor. Water pump pulley is smaller also. Look at my thread starting about post 777. Let me know if you got ?s
 
What are those numbers on the "post-it' notes?
 
I ended up going with Bouchillon on a small block setup - brackets and a new steering pump...easy just to buy from one source and you know everything is compatible...
Similar gear to this engine;
upload_2018-1-20_22-19-2.png
 
I ended up going with Bouchillon on a small block setup - brackets and a new steering pump...easy just to buy from one source and you know everything is compatible...
Similar gear to this engine;
View attachment 562214
I agree, before I installed a serpentine belt I put mine together with pulleys and brackets that I gathered.... What a PITA!! Mopars must have made a 100 variations on the pulleys and it's a real pain to piece it together. If your going to try and round up the pulleys finding a complete setup is the best route and use everything, then you just have to fab an A/C bracket to line up.
 
This is one of the 4 groove setups. Note the idler pulley to the right of the alternator. I just wonder why they had a 3 and 4 groove arrangement. Why not build it as simple and light as possible? Fewer parts...less weight, cheaper to build.View attachment 561859

Hey Kern this is the setup I'm running on my 440/493. Stock pulleys with the Idler, Power Steering and AC using a Sanden compressor on a Bouchillon Performance mount. The photo shows it going together before some of the pulleys were on, but you can see how it's gonna look...

IMG_1523.jpg
 
My thoughts. I agree with the comment about pulley hell. I was trying to help a guy find the right water pump pulley for his AC 318 like mine. What a nightmare. He bought about 3 from eBay and they all had the wrong offset and we were sure the one was per the parts book.
Small blocks had a single belt. If I had to guess is the big blocks torque could build RPM fast enough the RV-2 could not keep up and would slip.
 
I have a couple crates of pulleys so I went out and did some trial fitting. I have a 440 sitting on a stand just 4 feet from the front of the Charger. I think that I can make it work with a 3 groove crank pulley. This is good because I think that the stock 4 belt setup with the idler pulley for the water pump just looks too busy and cluttered. The 3 groove setup still allows 2 belts for the A/C and alternator but then the water pump and P/S pump share a belt. I have it mocked up on the spare 440 but the W/P pulley I have needs a little more depth. It is also a 2 groove and I only need one. I'm going to search for a single groove pulley 5 1/4" diameter with a distance of 1 1/2" from the outer face to the groove.
 
Just a FYI, the OEM set up (vicious drive package) uses a smaller pulley on water pump. I believe to help with slow speed cooling. Just something to think about.
 
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