1. red72

    red72 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    52
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Location:
    mississippi
    Local Time:
    9:54 PM
    I am ready to get my project painted (it has some dents, minimal rust, bad body work and a cheap paint job by p.o.). Problem is, I have never done any body work before. When it comes to the mechanical , I have tons of experience. Is this something that I should leave to the pros? I'm not lazy and don't mind doing the work but I'm afraid that I may screw things up and have to get the work redone anyway if I do it. What do you body guys think, give it a go or take it to the shop? Opinions?
     
  2. hemi#1

    hemi#1 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    303
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Location:
    pilot point tx
    Local Time:
    9:54 PM
    when doing body work is take your time because anything underneath is your canvas try not to have more than 1/16" of filler on the body. I have been doing body work for 44 yrs. and my son went to Wyotech for auto body , custom painting and street rod building and the cars we have turned out are show winners. he has wanted to do auto body since he was 4 yrs. old it's time consuming but when your done it's something you can be proud of. good luck with your project and it's less expensive than a shop. give it a go
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Sixpaksteve

      Sixpaksteve FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

      Messages:
      582
      Likes Received:
      306
      Joined:
      Jan 7, 2014
      Location:
      Central Maryland
      Local Time:
      10:54 PM
      Clint Eastwood (as Dirty Harry) once said...."A man's got to know his limitations." I think that's true when it comes to a lot of things in life, unless you've got deep enough pockets to pay twice for the job to be done correctly if the trial and error doesn't yield the results you're looking for.

      For many things, from decorating a wedding cake to spackeling drywall to (for me) doing body work, I know that given enough time, practice, and proper instruction I could learn to do these things reasonably well. But I also think there's an argument to be made that it's smart and less expensive in the long run to let the folks do this type of finish work who do it on a daily basis and are/should be extremely good at it. There's no shame in knowing your limitations IMHO.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Magnes

        Magnes Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        213
        Likes Received:
        185
        Joined:
        Nov 14, 2013
        Location:
        in the Houston Texas area
        Local Time:
        9:54 PM
        ^^^He is right. I taught myself how to do body work and paint mainly by watching youtube videos and doing some reading. Prepare yourself mentally and answer your own question whether you can do it or not.

        Check out DIYautoschool on Youtube, as well as SWRNC. Both Youtube channels are done by the same guy and he is a bit rowdy to say the least but he explains a lot of the techniques and really goes over EVERYTHING you could possibly run into or ever need to know about doing bodywork and paint. Seriously, he has so many videos that you could just watch them for a couple weeks. Take notes. You need to read and spend a lot of time watching videos to get your head wrapped around what you need to do and how to do it successfully.

        Rusty panels HAVE to be cut out and new panels welded in. There is a procedure here. Spot welds from side to side so not to overheat and warp the new panel. Never just weld in a straight line. Spot, switch, spot, switch, spot, switch, let it cool, spot, switch, spot, switch, etc. It takes time.

        You can use a DA sander to knock down surface rust. Sand the crap out of it. I like to then treat the metal with vinegar and water to kill the surface rust permanently (only works for surface rust). 1 cup vinegar to 3 cups water. Brush on, let sit 30 minutes. Use a wet rag to remove orange residue and clean it good, then sand again. Don't let the bare metal sit uncoated for more than a day or it'll flash rust again and you'll be sanding it again.

        You can buy a decent stud welding kit with a slide hammer for less than $200. That'll allow you to pull most dents without putting holes in the body. Also get a set of Durablock sanding blocks for about $50. Never sand filler or primer on your car without a block, and use the biggest block you can to get it as flat as possible. Sand in a criss cross manner. Diagonally a few swipes and the other diagonal a few swipes, etc.

        Once you have the body pretty flat, prime the car with a good 2K buildable sandable primer. You can get a "kit" that makes about 1 1/4 gallons of primer for about $100. You mix the primer with the activator to make a sprayable compound. It's a thick primer that fills chips and scratches. You'll need a good compressor to shoot the primer properly as well as water traps, long hose, and a primer gun with a 1.3 mm tip.

        Once the car is primed, use some cheap black paint and lightly mist the black paint over your car. This will be you guide coat. Continue blocking the car and the guide coat will show you any imperfections that you missed the first time.

        The first time I sand a car, most of the time I'll start with 80 grit. Second time I sand with 180. Third and final time, I sand with 320. That's it. 320 will give you a good surface for painting, allowing it to grab on. I buy the paper that is made for flex blocks, the backside is a bit sticky so it sticks to your blocks. It'll come in rolls of a few hundred feet and isn't terribly expensive.

        This is just some basic info to give you an idea. The main thing is PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL. If you think someone WON'T see something you slacked on or missed, well I am here to tell you THEY WILL. The paint will accentuate any and all problems.

        This stuff takes time. A LOT OF TIME.

        No matter what you do it's going to involve spending some money. Body shops are likely to charge you $60 an hour at least and unless the shop has extremely high standards, they are going to miss stuff AND YOU WILL SEE IT. If you do it yourself, you're going to have to invest a lot of time to get it right. Another thing to be aware of is, if you do the bodywork the shop that paints your car MAY not warrantee the paint since they don't know what is under the primer. It's because of this and the all out expense of body and paint work that I choose to not only do my own body work, but also my own paint. By the time I have my paint finished, I have invested hundreds and hundreds of hours.

        I'm not sure where you live, what your work environment is like, but I never do any body or paint unless the humidity is low and the temp is above 70. Products will not "flow out" like they were designed to do unless the conditions are right. This in mind, you may have some time before you can do the work. Take this time to do some reading, watch all the videos, and get a better grip on what's involved.

        I hope this helps you a bit.

        http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?81535-She-s-a-keeper!-72-Plymouth
         
        • Like Like x 11
        • CoronetDarter

          CoronetDarter Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          1,594
          Likes Received:
          1803
          Joined:
          Oct 13, 2013
          Location:
          Lincoln, CA
          Local Time:
          7:54 PM
          Hey Magnes - great post! My Coronet project just got it's first application of high build primer and is ready for the guide coat and blocking.

          Do you re-prime after each successive sanding - 80, 180, 320?
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Magnes

            Magnes Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            213
            Likes Received:
            185
            Joined:
            Nov 14, 2013
            Location:
            in the Houston Texas area
            Local Time:
            9:54 PM
            After 80, yes.

            After 180, yes.

            After 320, NO.

            320 is the grit that is going to prep the surface for your sealer or your paint. So you do not want to prime over the 320.

            ------- The way I do it is this: --------

            I cut out all rust, weld in new metal. Then I block the entire car down with 80. I get rid of as much of the BS as I can in this fashion. I mark all the lows and highs and fix those. I do all my bodywork in 80. I block that whole car. I try to get the entire car as perfect as I can by looking closely and feeling with my hands.

            Then when I think I have it perfect, I prep it with grease and wax remover, and shoot a coat of buildable primer. (The primer I use is recommended for use over bare metal, bondo, paint, other primer, whatever. It will etch itself to all that if prepared properly).

            I give it a day or so, then I use my guide coat and start blocking it with 180.

            The 180 step is really the last time I want to do any repairs of any sort. Fix it now. If you have to spot prime any areas because you missed something, or you hit bare metal, this is the time to do it. Make sure it's flawless when this step is done. Block it all 180. Make sure all the 80 grit scratches you created in the first step are smoothed over. You have got to get it done correctly now.

            Once the 180 step is done and I am positive I have the car absolutely perfect, I move on and prep the car again with grease and wax remover. Then I shoot the last coat of primer. I usually use the same buildable primer but this time I thin it out according to the instructions. Thinning it makes it more of a sealer.

            A day or 2 later, I start the 320 step. Carefully and slowly going over everything with the 320. This step is not body work. This step is PAINT PREP!!! This is the surface that you are going to paint over. The point of the 320 paper is NOT to remove any flaw other than a 180 grit scratch. The 320 sandpaper scratches gives the paint just enough that it can really grab onto the sealer/primer.

            At this point, you put down that 320 paper and your car should be immaculately smooth and almost ready to paint.

            -------- Paint -------

            Painting is the easy part IF you let it be the easy part.

            Get all your $hit ready in advance. Replace your compressor air filter. Drain your compressor (you should be doing that everyday anyway). I set my air pressure coming out of the compressor to 90 pounds. Attach your lines. Attach your water traps.

            --- I usually run 100 foot of hose out of my compressor, I leave that hose coiled up, run it to my biggest water trap. This allows any water vapor coming out of the compressor to cool down and condensate into droplets which are then caught by the big water trap. Then I attach my 50 foot hose coming out of that trap. I run that hose to my gun. I have a small in line water trap at the base of my gun to catch any moisture that the big trap missed. Then I have a small regulator at the base of my gun and I regulate the pressure to right below 30 pounds ---

            Make sure you have checked your gun settings. You will figure out how to set up your gun IF YOU PRACTICE! So PRATICE!

            Always use a respirator. I always buy new filters for my respirator. Those thing do not last forever. You do not want to breathe the chemicals flashing off that paint or clear. You will eventually get cancer and you will die. Your family will sell your car and you will be eternally pissed. Don't do that. I need my Mopar brothers to be healthy.

            Learn how to properly mix your paint. It's not that hard but it is easy to mess up.

            Use the PROPER reducer depending on your temperature.

            Make sure you buy enough paint beforehand... This sounds dumb but it's easy to screw up. Some colors don't cover as well as others. You may have to shoot up to 6 coats to get the coverage you need. Here's a tip... If you are shooting the exterior of a B Body, you are probably going to need about 2 gallons of pure paint to do the job. Figuring, mixing it with reducer (depending on instructions) if the paint you use says to reduce it 2 parts paint to 1 part reducer, you'll end up with 3 sprayable gallons of paint. Are you painting door jambs, inside doors, engine bay, inside trunk, bottom of hood, bottom of trunk lid, etc? You will likely need more paint than that even.

            Clear coat - You are not going to want to skimp on this stuff. Usually sold in kits, the stuff I buy usually, 1 kit is usually enough to get my job done, but then again, you could use more if you want to do 3 coats in the jambs, under the hood, etc. 2 kits is more than enough but remember, you DO NOT have to use it all. It's OK. Each kit will make about a gallon and a half of clear coat when mixed properly. I like to get the "super" or "ultra" flow out stuff and I like to shoot when it's pretty warm outside. This lets the clear flow out nicely and minimizes orange peel which minimizes the whole colorsanding operation. Don't shoot more than 3 coats of pure clear. If you were adding a clear/pearl coat ok, but usually anymore than 3 coats of clear is going to screw it up and it's not going to come out crystal clear. READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. They will tell you what to do and what not to do. Don't take liberties. The people who make the chemicals know how it should be used.

            I'm getting tired of writing this, lol. This is definitely not all you need to know but it should help out a bit. Give you some things to think about. It's just my take from the experience I have. I am not a pro. I am just a dude who messes around in my garage, trying to do the best I can and maybe help out a few guys in the process.
             
            • Like Like x 8
            • chargin'

              chargin' Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              370
              Likes Received:
              109
              Joined:
              Sep 3, 2013
              Location:
              st.john's
              Local Time:
              9:54 PM
              Do it yourself.
              Do all the research,fillers,primers,grits etc. Before you start,you could get a body panel like a door. Pound a few dents in it,repair and paint...see how it turns out. Good luck,there are lots of pro shops out there to take your money for crappy work,or leave your car in the "bodyshop jail".
               
              • Like Like x 2
              • Hemirunner

                Hemirunner Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                4,854
                Likes Received:
                5928
                Joined:
                Jul 12, 2011
                Location:
                Down South
                Local Time:
                9:54 PM
                Filler on bare metal or primer first then filler?
                 
              • chargin'

                chargin' Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                370
                Likes Received:
                109
                Joined:
                Sep 3, 2013
                Location:
                st.john's
                Local Time:
                9:54 PM
              • Magnes

                Magnes Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                213
                Likes Received:
                185
                Joined:
                Nov 14, 2013
                Location:
                in the Houston Texas area
                Local Time:
                9:54 PM
                I do filler on bare metal. By the time you prime the car, you should have all the major imperfections fixed and the filler primer should be able to help you fix any minor imperfections. If you have to, you can use a little filler over the filler primer but you want to keep that to a minimum, make sure to sand the primer to give the filler a surface it can grab on to, then spot prime over the repair and block it down again.

                Many times when I'm doing the initial body work, I work on one panel at a time. I don't want to try and work the whole car for that initial body work because there will be too much exposed bare metal around the car and by the time I get from the 1st panel I worked to the last panel I work, the 1st panel has flash rusted (surface rust has began). So if I work the top of the car 1st, I get it all good, then prime it and move on to the quarter, prime it, do the other quarter, prime it, rocker, prime it, other rocker, prime it, etc. That way my bare metal stay covered and the likelihood that I'll have surface rust is minimized.

                - - - Updated - - -

                That vid does explain some of the differences pretty good. If you pay close attention he even says, you don't really need to use the etching primer, or the epoxy primer. They are used more for just sealing bare metal (etching primer) or sealing bare metal AND filler (epoxy primer). Most good filler primers will etch metal just as good now a days. The technology has come a long way from the old school ways where you HAD to use an etching primer to get your stuff to grab onto the metal. If I had my entire car media blasted, I would consider using an etching primer or an epoxy primer just to seal it up and prevent flash rusting but that's really the only time I'd use a etching or epoxy primer. Opinions vary though and I'm not saying my ideas are the only right ones.

                Personally, I don't like Eastwood products and it looks like that is what he is representing there. Their stuff is cheap and not good quality. But that's my opinion. I will say that the cheapest PPG paint (shop line) is 10 times better than anything I have seen from Eastwood. PPG stuff is more expensive but like anything, you get what you pay for. The stuff from TCP Global is decent quality and is very affordable and I like to use their stuff.
                 
                • Like Like x 3
                • Ghostrider 67

                  Ghostrider 67 ^^^^^Avatar.. FBBO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  23,940
                  Likes Received:
                  47113
                  Joined:
                  Oct 16, 2014
                  Location:
                  Salisbury, Vermont
                  Local Time:
                  10:54 PM
                  Thanks everyone for a great thread! Very helpful info.
                   
                • threewood

                  threewood FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

                  Messages:
                  4,972
                  Likes Received:
                  6456
                  Joined:
                  May 30, 2014
                  Location:
                  Yuma, AZ
                  Local Time:
                  7:54 PM
                  Your car sounds a lot like my car. Very little rust, dents and dings everywhere, shoddy bodywork and an Earl Scheib pait job. It just takes time, lots of time. Do one panel at a time. I used an old fashioned slide hammer so I had to weld fill all my holes. I had to replace several areas that had solid metal but were mangled up and filler slapped on. You will get good at welding.

                  When you consider the cost of hiring someone to do it you will be saving a ton of money. You will get frustrated and you may spend some time looking at damage and saying wtf. But in all it is a fun project and well worth it in the end.
                   
                • CoronetDarter

                  CoronetDarter Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  1,594
                  Likes Received:
                  1803
                  Joined:
                  Oct 13, 2013
                  Location:
                  Lincoln, CA
                  Local Time:
                  7:54 PM
                  Thanks Magnes, your posts are very helpful. I appreciate the time you took to thoroughly explain the process
                   
                • Magnes

                  Magnes Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  213
                  Likes Received:
                  185
                  Joined:
                  Nov 14, 2013
                  Location:
                  in the Houston Texas area
                  Local Time:
                  9:54 PM
                  No problem. It's my pleasure to help.

                  You know if each person here tried painting their own car I'm about 100% sure each one would come up with different methods and unless the end result is a crappy job, there's nothing wrong with doing it differently. I just give my take. My methods. And I'm still learning. I screw up and you may too, but as long as you do the work with care and a good attitude I can guarantee, in time, you will succeed.

                  PS - WEAR A RESPIRATOR!!!
                   
                • Bananna Bee

                  Bananna Bee Active Member

                  Messages:
                  27
                  Likes Received:
                  9
                  Joined:
                  Dec 6, 2014
                  Location:
                  Illinois
                  Local Time:
                  9:54 PM
                  Magnes stated "I do filler on bare metal." This is NOT recommend by any paint or filler manufacturer except one. Ever coat has a product named Z grip, they state you can apply over bare metal. Fine print will reveal only under certain circumstances. I have talked directly with the manufacturers reps for Evercoat and they are cautious about usage.

                  Bottom line, no filler over bare steel. The Summit video even supports thIs. Stating the epoxy is a "barrier against moisture and corrosion. The fact is rust will develop between the steel and the fill as the moisture from the catalizing action of the filler hardening will be trapped. How long until the rust appears depends on many factors.

                  Sorry to ramble on here, I do have many years of professional restoration experience and the tried and true method is any filler must be sandwiched BETWEEN coats of epoxy, if you want it to last long term.
                   
                  • Like Like x 2
                  • Michael789

                    Michael789 Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    249
                    Likes Received:
                    80
                    Joined:
                    Apr 17, 2013
                    Location:
                    Tennessee
                    Local Time:
                    10:54 PM
                    That's correct no filler on bare metal . This hole thread has been outstanding great posting here guys!
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • Magnes

                      Magnes Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      213
                      Likes Received:
                      185
                      Joined:
                      Nov 14, 2013
                      Location:
                      in the Houston Texas area
                      Local Time:
                      9:54 PM
                      See, this is what I was talking about here:

                      I think it's about preferences and who you talk to. Some people will say yes, some will say no. I just do what works for me. I read the technical data sheets for the stuff I use because the chemists who make each compound know better than anyone what those compounds can and cannot do. And also worth mentioning is the chemicals they make now may not necessarily be the same as they were 20 or 30 years ago so that's another good reason to not just rely on information from the past because things do change even if the can looks the same.

                      Here's the technical data sheet for the filler I use: http://www.u-pol.co.uk/documents/datasheets/tds/FLYG-TDS-US.pdf

                      UP0745 U-POL Flyweight Gold Lightweight Body Filler

                      "Surface Prep and Instructions For Use: FLYWEIGHT GOLD polyester filler can be used on the following surfaces -
                      --- Bare Metal - e.g. Steel, degrease and abrade with p80 paper
                      --- Original paint surfaces (with the exception of thermoplastic acrylics) degrease and abrade with p180 grit paper
                      --- GRP degrease and abrade with p80 grit paper"

                      And on their website it says:

                      "Lightweight body filler.
                      Smooth and easy to spread.
                      Pinhole free.
                      Non-porous formula will not shrink.
                      Impervious to solvent in 15-20 minutes.
                      Adheres to Most Substrates Including: Direct to Metal, OEM Paint Surfaces, Aluminum, Galvanized, SMC, Fiberglass, Lightly Abraded E Coat and Most Plastics."

                      So in closing, I'm not saying those guys are wrong, and I'm not saying I am right. This is just what I do and the info above is the reason WHY I am doing what I do.
                       
                    • chargin'

                      chargin' Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      370
                      Likes Received:
                      109
                      Joined:
                      Sep 3, 2013
                      Location:
                      st.john's
                      Local Time:
                      9:54 PM
                      I do the same as Magnes,and use similar materials. 20 years and no issues. I do know guys the epoxy and then fill also. For me it depends on the panel and how much work is required.
                       
                    1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                      By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.