Borgenson vs. Lares 11043

[moparpaul]

Hi

I’ve read through lots of threads regarding SG, FF, Borgenson and Lares.

I’m in trenches(driveway) working on my 1965 Satellite convertible. Original small block automatic now converting to 383/4 speed.

I will be rebuilding enter front suspension.

I’m not too concerned with keeping things perfectly original but am cost conscious.

I’m feeling Borgenson from Bergman is the way to go but my cheap side keeps telling me to go with the Lares 11043 from rock auto.

I’ll drive it nearly daily as I’m on the left coast(CA).

My daily current driver is a 1966 Plymouth Barracuda 273/904 with a 16:1 PST manual box. It’s really nice from 10 mph up. It’s not very fun parking or turning at standstill or under 5 mph.

I would appreciate any input, personal experience or suggestions.

Thank you

Paul

 

[Darter6]

Did a 64 Plymouth station wagon with the Borgeson from Burgman.Box,pump and hoses.
Drives and handles very well. Rock Auto,is it a complete kit or just a box ?
Reason I ask is will Rock Auto provide you any support if needed ? Burgman will.

 

[Kern Dog]

First, the name is Borgeson, not BorgeNson.

Secondly, the Lares steering box used to be a USED, rebuilt unit. I've read that they have actually tooled up to build their own NEW version of the Mopar factory unit.
If they did and IF their unit eliminated the on center slop that almost every Mopar power steering box had, it might be worth a try. The ratio of the Borgeson is better at 14 to 1 compared to the 15.7 to 1 factory unit.
I've driven cars with the OEM Mopar steering box, Firm Feel Stage 2 and 3 and now the Borgeson. A good factory unit that has no slop is a decent choice. If there is any slop at all, it will only get worse. The Borgeson is a modern design and isn't as likely to develop that slop.
The Borgeson is expensive though.

 

[Cranky]

Are you weak? Had no problem with the manual steering on my 66 Belvedere with all the caster and camber I could get into it but may have been harder to steer with a faster ratio box? Yeah, the car had factory AC with a not very light weight /6 auto in it.....but it did have a glass hood.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Lares has tooled up a new box, I have no personal experience but someone here on FBBO does cause I remember reading about it... He was excited to save a few hundred $$ but when it was installed it was regret central... Get the Borgeson.. The sting of buying it will fade, the smile while driving it won't...

 

[moparpaul]

Did a 65 Plymouth station wagon with the Borgenson from Burgman.Box,pump and hoses.
Drives and handles very well. Rock Auto,is it a complete kit or just a box ?
Reason I ask is will Rock Auto provide you any support if needed ? Burgman will.

Thanks for the quick response.

Rockauto is just the box.

I talked with Lares. Seems like good support.

I talked with Bergman also. I feel Bergman would be better support wise as a business owner.

 

[moparpaul]

1965 wagon!

Now that’s cool!

Thanks Again

 

[moparpaul]

First, the name is Borgeson, not BorgeNson.
View attachment 1386186
Secondly, the Lares steering box used to be a USED, rebuilt unit. I've read that they have actually tooled up to build their own NEW version of the Mopar factory unit.
If they did and IF their unit eliminated the on center slop that almost every Mopar power steering box had, it might be worth a try. The ratio of the Borgeson is better at 14 to 1 compared to the 15.7 to 1 factory unit.
I've driven cars with the OEM Mopar steering box, Firm Feel Stage 2 and 3 and now the Borgeson. A good factory unit that has no slop is a decent choice. If there is any slop at all, it will only get worse. The Borgeson is a modern design and isn't as likely to develop that slop.
The Borgeson is expensive though.

Thank you so much!

They say Lares is new NOT rebuilt.

Rock Auto has been good about returns in past if there’s a problem.

Just really not that fun to R&R twice. I did that on my 66 Cuda.

Yes to the no N in the middle.

Shipping has gotten out of control. It’ll add about $200 plus to total cost for FF or SG.

Anyway

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[multimopes]

Are you weak?

Not that bad yet but getting there, lol. I damn near dislocate my shoulders trying to park or navigate with a 440 sitting up there with a manual box. I've been shot in one shoulder 3 times with cortisone, dang it! I hope to acquire & install a Borgeson from Bergman myself this year. I don't want to risk losing the ability to knock back a few beers resulting from over strain.


Please keep us posted with your installation & good luck! I had a 65 Barracuda way back when with a 66 Dart nose!

 

[moparpaul]

All us mopar guys are getting older and weaker

I used drive a 1969 satellite 383 4 speed manual brakes and manual steering.

It was a workout. 3.91 sure grip. Lots of RPMs at highway speed.

I’m not the man I used to be?

Or is it

I’m as as good once as I ever was?

Can’t remember…..

 

[Dennis Weden]

I put the Borgeson in another classic car. I was smiling ear to ear. Do it once and do it right.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

First did you see my post above?
Second yes Rock Auto will take parts back, but they won't eat the shipping both ways...

 

[moparpaul]

Ah Yes.

I see it now.

Must’ve missed it.

Thank you

 

[moparpaul]

I put the Borgeson in another classic car. I was smiling ear to ear. Do it once and do it right.

I think you are right!

Thank you

 

[mrmolding]

I tried the Lares 11033 for my 70 last year. It was a different appearing box but very close to original. It was supposed to be an all new box with better everything. It did not match up perfectly and you were supposed to grind a part out of the k-frame to make it fit. I sent it back to RockAuto but I paid to ship it back. Not sure since the number you mention was a 11043, but sounds really similar to my experience. I almost tried the Borgeson but I actually found the correct box rebuilt by Lares and it has been a joy. No slop at all, maybe I got lucky. But if the 11043 is like the 11033, it might be extra work.

 

[Darter6]

Sorry moparpaul I made a mistake it was a "64" wagon. Guess I had 65 on the brain.

 

[moparpaul]

I tried the Lares 11033 for my 70 last year. It was a different appearing box but very close to original. It was supposed to be an all new box with better everything. It did not match up perfectly and you were supposed to grind a part out of the k-frame to make it fit. I sent it back to RockAuto but I paid to ship it back. Not sure since the number you mention was a 11043, but sounds really similar to my experience. I almost tried the Borgeson but I actually found the correct box rebuilt by Lares and it has been a joy. No slop at all, maybe I got lucky. But if the 11043 is like the 11033, it might be extra work.

Thank you.

 

[moparpaul]

Yeah

That’s kinda what I thought the Lares would be.

From what I understand the 11033 and 11043 would be the same externally.

Definitely don’t feel like grinding on ‘new’ stuff and returning.

I’m leaning toward Borgenson or a PST 20:1 manual.

Thank you again

 

[moparpaul]

Sorry moparpaul I made a mistake it was a "64" wagon. Guess I had 65 on the brain.

View attachment 1386334

Love it!

Sold my 64 Dodge 440 hardtop a couple years back.

 

[gtxdana]

Hopefully the FF Stage 3 box I had done is good, but I won't know until I get my car back from bodyshop prison and put back together.
Maybe the Mopar crowd will have better luck, but I've had zero luck with Borgeson boxes on a couple of my other classics. Zero road feel and the on-center dead spot makes the cars not much fun to drive. And yes, I've done pump pressure tests and flow mods. It's not the alignment either. I returned one of the $450 Borgeson boxes, off the car with the easy to change box, and bought a "reman" A1 Cardone box off Amazon for $128 outright. Inside the box was a new Lares box that was better than the Borgeson.