Borgeson install, drag link not level??

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
Guys i am over thinking this? Doesn't look right to me , I suspect an issue unless this is normal. I plan on calling borgeson tomorrow. Installing new steering box , pitman arm & idler arm. When I put it all together on the k frame, via torque specs. The draw bar / center link is almost 1 inch lower on the pitman arm side. So it looks "kitty wumpis" I scatched my head for while and think I did something wrong... I took everything back apart and reinstall the original stuff compared to new & took measurements, then installed 1 pc at a time. The new pitman arm very close and idler arm is too. Mounting the new and oem box. I see the borgeson is almost 1/4" longer where the splines start. Which may be the whole issue?? See bunch of photos below.

I marked how it wants to sit with the borgenson box. It's best example I can show, hope you get the idea...

20210726_204342.jpg
 
Last edited:

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
Steering box measurement.
oem in first photo,
Borgenson in second.
You can see its about a 1/4" longer.

These are both bolted to k frame , sitting on the floor.

20210726_202151.jpg 20210726_201640.jpg
 
Last edited:

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
New parts , measuring from the floor you can see its off. Note the height difference from one side to the other is nearly one inch dropped o. The pitman arm side.

First pic is borgeson box and pitman arm side.
second pic is idler arm measurement.

am I over thinking this and its okay, doesn't seem right?

20210726_204610.jpg 20210726_204625.jpg
 
Last edited:

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
Here is the oem steering box and pitman arm. Approx 2.0" to the floor.


20210726_202840.jpg
 
Last edited:

4mulas

Well-Known Member
Local time
7:26 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
1,635
Reaction score
1,720
Location
Just North of Montana
I think the only way you should reference measurements like that is when it’s bolted to the k-member. Do that then measure down from the k-frame. Also the pics are kinda confusing and not clear what we’re looking at?
 

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
I think the only way you should reference measurements like that is when it’s bolted to the k-member. Do that then measure down from the k-frame. Also the pics are kinda confusing and not clear what we’re looking at?
These are all bolted to k frame , the k frame is out of the car on the floor. I labeled what is in the photos accordingly. Hope this helps.
 

ChargerST

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
225
Reaction score
170
Location
Austria
Have you compared the drop of the pitman arms?

I bet it is slightly off as well and together with the additional 1/4" lower spline portion is giving the observed drop on the driver's side.
 

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
yes, it is the nearly the same , but has a more pronounced curve. i've put the old one back on and made no difference. i'm going to call Borgenson today, hoping they can provide some incite.

unless someone tells me they have similar situation and it was fine... (best case scenario) but unlikely , i think that center link should be level. i know 1 inch doesnt seem much , but when you step back and look at it , it seems way off...
 

4mulas

Well-Known Member
Local time
7:26 AM
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
1,635
Reaction score
1,720
Location
Just North of Montana
Do you have the pitman tightened and torqued onto the borgeson sector shaft fully. Looks like maybe there is some more spline to go? Also as chargerst said, have you compared the bends of the two pitman arms?

It also looks to me like the pitman arm is not in the same spot when you are measure it. The arc or travel of the arm will make it go higher and lower as it turns from side to side. It is travelling on a circle (the sector shaft) mounted at an angle off the k member. Does any of this make any sense (I’m finding it hard to explain)
 

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
Thanks 4mulas for the input; i had used old and new pitman arm to end up with same measurements. The new pitman arm does have a pronounced curve, which i thought might affect it as well. but the height difference were eventually the same wither i had the new or old pitman arm in place. i do have that photo, but thought it unnecessary to add it as it was same height. it is made by different mfg (Proforged) vs the old one was Moog. i'm considering to pick up a Moog Pitman arm , just to eliminate that indefinitely .

i did have all nuts torqued to spec per Borgeson's installation instructions. i had just removed the nut right away once torqued knowing i was going to take it apart again. Then took the photos of the set up.
 

ChargerST

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
225
Reaction score
170
Location
Austria
is the mounting face parallel to the output shaft centerline? Is the distance between the output shaft centerline and mounting face the same on the old box vs. the Borgeson box?
 

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
well , i ordered a idler arm and pitman arm from PST. same results ! actually gained another 3/8" tilted off! i used pitman and idler arms that gave me best the most "level" bar i could come up with. I've also talked to Borgeson serval times, sent them all the photos, eventually they had their "management" review & they said it's fine like that and run it ....

Having really no choice at this point. Asides going a completely different mfg's steering box. I'm convinced the angle was caused by the box, EVERYTHING was replaced with different manufacture's parts , that was the only variable. like i noted, i've sticked the OEM box back in and it was level. :(

at this point, it's all in the car and clears the torsion bar on passenger's side (which was the higher side) just by about a half inch or so! I got no bump steer issues and everything seems okay. I've got about 100 miles like this with my garage floor alignment.

hope this helps someone in some way.
 

murfman

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
95
Reaction score
167
Location
Here
well , i ordered a idler arm and pitman arm from PST. same results ! actually gained another 3/8" tilted off! i used pitman and idler arms that gave me best the most "level" bar i could come up with. I've also talked to Borgeson serval times, sent them all the photos, eventually they had their "management" review & they said it's fine like that and run it ....

Having really no choice at this point. Asides going a completely different mfg's steering box. I'm convinced the angle was caused by the box, EVERYTHING was replaced with different manufacture's parts , that was the only variable. like i noted, i've sticked the OEM box back in and it was level. :(

at this point, it's all in the car and clears the torsion bar on passenger's side (which was the higher side) just by about a half inch or so! I got no bump steer issues and everything seems okay. I've got about 100 miles like this with my garage floor alignment.

hope this helps someone in some way.
Other than the odd angle, how do you like it? How does it drive? Good steering feel? Ratio feel good?
 

Hubbarocks

Well-Known Member
Local time
8:26 AM
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
188
Reaction score
96
Location
sconsin'
how do you like it? personally it's "fine". i just need to get used to it vs. the suggestive steering. i'm sure i'll like it eventually after i've forgotten all about the headaches. i wasnt sure what i was expecting.

How does it drive? it's much tighter then my washed out OEM slush box. It'll take some getting used to.

Good steering feel? very responsive , once i get an actually alignment i'm sure it will feel much better. i replaced all the steering linkage and rebuilt all the suspension + firm feel kit on the lower control arms.

Ratio feel good? it's quick, especially with a 14" steering wheel. feels like i'm driving a go cart. i'm considering putting the factory boat wheel back on.
 

JDMopar

New Member
Local time
9:26 AM
Joined
Dec 13, 2021
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
Location
NY
Hi. I experienced the exact same problem as you with the center link not being level on my 69 Charger. I spoke to Peter Bergman at Bergman Autocraft. He told me to shim two of the three mounting locations for the steering box about 1/8”. I did this and it greatly improved the center link angle. I have not driven the car yet, but I am assuming that it should be fine.
 

Top