Borgeson vs Steer and Gear unit

68 Sport Satellite

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How much tighter does the Borgeson feel compared to steer and gear stage 2? Is it like rack and pinion tight or just a "little" tighter than stage 2? I used to have Firmfeel stage 2 also with the longer fast ratio pitman and idler arms. That was too tight for quick winding turns (although I felt very in control, it was tiring on autocross I did a few times). I've since removed the fast ratio arms and the stage 2 by itself is WAY better than stock, if only it was firmed up a bit and get rid of the center slop. If Borgeson is that happy middle-ground between Stage 2 and the Stage 2 with fast ratio arms, I would be very interested.
 

tonysrt

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When I did mine, steer & gear called it equal to a Police firmness box. When mopars were made for P.D.'s they made them with less slop or better specs, still wasn't as good as the borgeson.
 

68 Sport Satellite

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When I did mine, steer & gear called it equal to a Police firmness box. When mopars were made for P.D.'s they made them with less slop or better specs, still wasn't as good as the borgeson.
That's the same description Firm Feel uses for the Stage 1 box rebuild. I'm running stage 2 which is just a bit firmer. I've heard the Borgeson is firmer than Firm Feel Stage 3. I need to find someone local who has one and drive it!
 

Kern Dog

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I have the FF Stage 3 with the F/R arms. The effort is high but tolerable. If there were no slop in mine, I’d be happy with it.
I am currently NOT happy with it.
 

417guy

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I’ll offer a drive to anyone that wants to feel the difference. I only had a worn out OE box to reference. It’s not Acura steering, but almost like 2019 F150.
 

furyus

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I just completed a Borgeson install with a Bergman Auto Craft steering coupler on my 64 Polara. There was no need to cut the steering shaft. I have yet to test drive, but that should happen in the next couple of weeks. The install was straight forward. The pic of the steering box on the bench is my old unit.

View attachment 1267048 View attachment 1267050
What headers are you running? My headers didn't hit the stock box, but did hit the Borgeson.
 

68 Sport Satellite

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What headers are you running? My headers didn't hit the stock box, but did hit the Borgeson.
please let us know what headers you're running that hit the Borgeson. That's the first I've heard of that as a potential issue.
 

Wietse

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From what I read is that TTI 1-7/8" headers clear the Borgeson box.
That's the headers I am using as well, i remember my old headers (unknown brand) cyl #1 exhaust tube ran completely different than the TTI does.
 

417guy

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please let us know what headers you're running that hit the Borgeson. That's the first I've heard of that as a potential issue.
I’ve got 20 year old hooker long tube ceramic coated 1 7/8 tubes . Don’t know the part number, but the Borgeson has a lot more room around it than the OE box. I’ve got a few pics of the install on my posts. I didn’t have to remove the header to install the Borgeson.
 

JG71B

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I’ve got 20 year old hooker long tube ceramic coated 1 7/8 tubes . Don’t know the part number, but the Borgeson has a lot more room around it than the OE box. I’ve got a few pics of the install on my posts. I didn’t have to remove the header to install the Borgeson.
That's what I needed to hear. I have the same headers only a couple years old but the same 1 7/8" on the B motor (71 b body). I converted to manual steering to clear headers and clean up the engine bay. Power steering is in the future again and a Borgeson is what I'm looking at. Manual is OK but I'm over it
 

furious70

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We just did 2" Doug's on a RB on my brother's 70 charger and they clear the borgeson fyi
 

rad savoy

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IMG_6630.jpg
63 savoy with dougs headers and clearance shown with borgeson unit. note the dented header by the previous owner to clear the old unit RAD
IMG_6630.jpg
 

MoparGuy68

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I have the FF Stage 3 with the F/R arms. The effort is high but tolerable. If there were no slop in mine, I’d be happy with it.
I am currently NOT happy with it.
Kern Dog is NOT a happy camper! Get the Borgeson and enjoy your camping haha.
 

MoparGuy68

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please let us know what headers you're running that hit the Borgeson. That's the first I've heard of that as a potential issue.
I created a lengthy thread, in the Bergman section on this forum, documenting my epic Borgeson installation. That was two years ago. You might want to take a look at it. My driver side #1 head pipe cleared the stock Chrysler box, but didn’t even come close to clearing the Borgeson box. I ended up replacing the headers with stock HP manifolds.

My headers were long tube with monster 3.5” diameter collectors. I’m not sure the make but I think they may have been old Doug Thorley headers. They were on the car when I bought it.
 

Charlie Brown

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Update on steering box install. I've since put about 200 miles on my new Borgeson steering box. Biggest noticeable difference is no more wandering and steering correction at highway speeds. Steering feel is more direct and responsive. In regards to my alignment, when I went to the alignment shop, the tech said that my home alignment was almost spot on and that it would have been fine to drive as is. I did however, get him to fine tune it. The person who did the alignment check is old school and is the owner / operator of this one man shop. Not may of these guys left. The one thing I'd like to see in my car is to be able to pull a bit more castor out of the front end - but I'll deal with that next winter. For now I'm just going to drive her.
 

68 Sport Satellite

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Update on steering box install. I've since put about 200 miles on my new Borgeson steering box. Biggest noticeable difference is no more wandering and steering correction at highway speeds. Steering feel is more direct and responsive. In regards to my alignment, when I went to the alignment shop, the tech said that my home alignment was almost spot on and that it would have been fine to drive as is. I did however, get him to fine tune it. The person who did the alignment check is old school and is the owner / operator of this one man shop. Not may of these guys left. The one thing I'd like to see in my car is to be able to pull a bit more castor out of the front end - but I'll deal with that next winter. For now I'm just going to drive her.
what were the final alignment settings?
 

68 Sport Satellite

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1/8" toe in, neg. 1/4 degree camber, Pos. 1.2 degree castor - I think I should be getting more castor because I have Moog offset bushings (2 sets) in the upper control arms.
I'm not sure how much caster you can get and your numbers are not far off from stock (except too much toe in), but with my Firm Feel UCA's I'm getting +4.5 deg Caster, 1/32" toe in, -1 degree camber. You want negative camber if possible and if you stay with 1/8" toe in you'll wear the tires too much. Keep it toe in just a bit though to avoid wandering steering.
 
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