Check the back side of your cage welds...

Snook

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I cut the front halo bars out of Max a few minutes ago. The roll cage and subframes were done by S&W race cars in PA and they did top notch work. When we relocated to FL, I had a local race car fabricator in Palm City FL (I have no idea if they are still in business) add the front halo cage. These are the bars that go from the top of the roll cage to the windshield and then down to the cross bars - in short, the ones that keep the roof from crushing you in case of a bad rollover. The car was getting pretty fast (9's and high 8's were was I was shooting for at the time, so I wanted the extra protection). This company advertised a "credit card fit" from their bars to the headliner.

This was in 2006 or thereabouts. It looked OK but the drivers side was done badly, blocking easy access to the push button shifter and park lever but I could work around it. I shouldn't have paid the $1100 but I just wanted the car out of that shop with no hassle - I figured I could sort it out later with some modification. Well, I sold the car in 2006 to a great guy who called me as he said he would if he ever decided to sell the car. I picked up the car a month or so ago and started the return to street conversion. I knew that I was keeping the car to 11.50's and I decided to cut the halo out. See pics for what the back side of the welds look like - the side you can't see.

Chuck (snook)

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mr. b

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wow that isn’t good glad you didn’t have to find out the hard way
 

Snook

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Tracked down the shop. It closed in 2012 after the owner committed suicide.

Chuck (snook)
 

Mr. Cranky

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I've seen stuff like that before but not that bad....it's not always easy to get a full weld on everything but that looks pretty bad. And I kinda wonder what set that situation into motion. Did someone crash and died in a car with that shop's rollcage in it?
 

Ron H

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That sucks. Shop doing this work should KNOW what their work is intended to do. On a related note, too many friggin times I’ve trusted work I’ve paid others top prices to do – building my house including a few things I had done on my old ride. Crap do it for the quick bucks instead of right! The rework I’ve had to do myself was infuriating to get it ‘right’. Someone said find an outfit that will work on YOUR stuff like it is THEIR stuff…they’re out there…but best a luck in the hunt. Two of the places I used came highly recommended having good reputations. I must have used them when they had their periods.
 

Dave P

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Do you have pictures of the other side of that panel and what those tubes were welded to.
Lets say the side you can see.
Those look like maybe just tacks to hold a location??? Of course the epoxy is pretty special....
 

Mr. Cranky

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That sucks. Shop doing this work should KNOW what their work is intended to do. On a related note, too many friggin times I’ve trusted work I’ve paid others top prices to do – building my house including a few things I had done on my old ride. Crap do it for the quick bucks instead of right! The rework I’ve had to do myself was infuriating to get it ‘right’. Someone said find an outfit that will work on YOUR stuff like it is THEIR stuff…they’re out there…but best a luck in the hunt. Two of the places I used came highly recommended having good reputations. I must have used them when they had their periods.
My money pit home started out in 84 when I built my shop. The slab wasn't anything like I wanted because the 'boss' didn't show up when the crew did and the next in line lead man didn't know what the hell he was doing in the Texas August heat. He was the father in law of the company's owner and was from NY. My dad and I built the structure and that came out just fine. Everything that was contracted work for ANYTHING on this place was **** work and had to redo a lot of it. One of the few jobs that did come out good was a partial repipe......just glad that I was able to do most of the maintenance and repair work on the cars.
 

Snook

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I don't know why he offed himself but I heard it was business and drug problems.

Chuck (snook)
 

Snook

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I've seen stuff like that before but not that bad....it's not always easy to get a full weld on everything but that looks pretty bad. And I kinda wonder what set that situation into motion. Did someone crash and died in a car with that shop's rollcage in it?

Not that I know of.

Chuck
 

Snook

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Do you have pictures of the other side of that panel and what those tubes were welded to.
Lets say the side you can see.
Those look like maybe just tacks to hold a location??? Of course the epoxy is pretty special....

Yeah "high strength magic epoxy"

Chuck
 

Dave P

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Ok, I figured out what I was looking at, yup that really sucked.
Lazy bastard could have at least dabbed the epoxy so it looked like a weld bead.
 

Ron H

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My money pit home started out in 84 when I built my shop. The slab wasn't anything like I wanted because the 'boss' didn't show up when the crew did and the next in line lead man didn't know what the hell he was doing in the Texas August heat. He was the father in law of the company's owner and was from NY. My dad and I built the structure and that came out just fine. Everything that was contracted work for ANYTHING on this place was **** work and had to redo a lot of it. One of the few jobs that did come out good was a partial repipe......just glad that I was able to do most of the maintenance and repair work on the cars.
That was part of the frustration…work I let out I could have done; but at the time was busier than a one-armed coat hanger with my biz and no issue forking out the cash. The IDEA was to save me some time having tons of other stuff on the restoration. Some of the rework I had to do I figured took longer than having done it to begin with. Reminded me of the first words from my boss (first job) when I started work at a machine shop. He walked me over to a filthy lathe saying “I want you to clean this machine like it’s your car; not your old man’s car". Funny how there are certain things people have said that stuck in my head forever.
 

Snook

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That was part of the frustration…work I let out I could have done; but at the time was busier than a one-armed coat hanger with my biz and no issue forking out the cash. The IDEA was to save me some time having tons of other stuff on the restoration. Some of the rework I had to do I figured took longer than having done it to begin with. Reminded me of the first words from my boss (first job) when I started work at a machine shop. He walked me over to a filthy lathe saying “I want you to clean this machine like it’s your car; not your old man’s car". Funny how there are certain things people have said that stuck in my head forever.

Ain't that the truth...

Chuck (snook)
 

Hemirunner

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That’s legal only if it’s gusseted. Mine are all fully welded as I look at the cage builder in the mirror every morning...
 

Nxcoupe

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I cut the front halo bars out of Max a few minutes ago. The roll cage and subframes were done by S&W race cars in PA and they did top notch work. When we relocated to FL, I had a local race car fabricator in Palm City FL (I have no idea if they are still in business) add the front halo cage. These are the bars that go from the top of the roll cage to the windshield and then down to the cross bars - in short, the ones that keep the roof from crushing you in case of a bad rollover. The car was getting pretty fast (9's and high 8's were was I was shooting for at the time, so I wanted the extra protection). This company advertised a "credit card fit" from their bars to the headliner.

This was in 2006 or thereabouts. It looked OK but the drivers side was done badly, blocking easy access to the push button shifter and park lever but I could work around it. I shouldn't have paid the $1100 but I just wanted the car out of that shop with no hassle - I figured I could sort it out later with some modification. Well, I sold the car in 2006 to a great guy who called me as he said he would if he ever decided to sell the car. I picked up the car a month or so ago and started the return to street conversion. I knew that I was keeping the car to 11.50's and I decided to cut the halo out. See pics for what the back side of the welds look like - the side you can't see.

Chuck (snook)

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I usually don't get involved in these internet bashing threads but I have a question. If the main hoop was already welded in and tight to the roof/headliner, how was anyone supposed to get to the top of the bar to weld it? You sure as hell can't get a mig torch up in there and you can't see to tig and feed the stick in, so just asking, how would you guys do it and do it correctly? I did mine all at once and drilled holes in the floor for the cage to sit down into so we could weld the tops of all the bars. Then we lifted the cage up and slid the 1/4" plates under and welded it all together. To do the OP's car correctly, the existing cage needed cut out and it started over or gusset the weld joints as mentioned. I look at a roll cage as an insurance policy, when I wreck, I want to be sure I have the best chance of survival, so I don't skimp or add onto existing stuff. We cut everything out of my 25.5 car and started fresh because of the reasons I mentioned above. None of the welds would have been on top, just no room to do it unless the bar is low or lowered down to weld. Jmho.
 

Snook

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This was new halo bar at the windshield, so they easily could have welded it OUTSIDE the car and then installed the halo. I've attached some pics of the stub to show that they did weld around the bar radius at the existing roll bar hoop, so it was just a case of laziness. There was plenty of room to do it inside the car, there was sufficient distance from the roof as evidenced by the pic showing the room from the existing hoop to the headliner. They just made sure that there lack of follow through was not visible on the windshield halo bar.

This thread was not meant as a bash, just a heads up to watch anyone working on your car to ensure that your safety is enhanced and we all get our moneys worth. The guy offed himself so what benefit would I get by bashing him?

Chuck (snook)

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Snook

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I think they had a "oh ****" moment. They probably realized that they didn't finish the halo weld at the windshield after welding it in to the existing roll bar hoop. Then they added black epoxy to cover up their obvious lack of welds but really, all they had to do was pull the headliner back and finish the job - plenty of room for that. One scenario, who knows what really happened?

Chuck (snook)
 

6PKRTSE

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I know some cut the roofs off of cars to be able to weld all around. We just dropped mine through holes in the floors. Fully welded all the upper bars. Picked entire cage up, supported from underneath and then did the undercar and internal bars.

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demonram

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I see shoddy, **** work all the time. Not on roll cage welds or race cars. I see it in homes all the time. People put their trust in someone to do a good job and the end result is this situation. I can’t begin to remember how many times we’ve started a project and found either poor workmanship or just plain dangerous work. I always show the customer what we’ve found and explained the problem. I’ve had other contractors say, isn’t that great, more work! I tell them it’s bullshit to think like that! I’ve been here a little over 5 years. Honestly, I’ve never seen such **** building in my life. I’m from Illinois/Wisconsin areas and yes I’d seen it there too. Nothing, in any comparison to what I see here. How these people who do this sleep or even face themselves in the mirror, is beyond me. Just looked at another one yesterday, single older lady. Guy she hired, charging $75.00 per hour, screwed up everything he touched. Then when she questioned him, he said you bought the crap. Needless to say, that wasn’t the problem. It’s worse today, more than ever. Sorry, just had to get it off my chest, it pisses me off every time, doesn’t matter the situation.
 
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