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Clarification on stock sizes for wheel studs, please

moparedtn

I got your Staff Member riiiight heeeere...
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I need to fetch a set of wheel studs for the front of my '68 GTX.
11" drums, all stock, running Magnum 500's (steel wheels).
I'd imagine this is pretty standard stuff across the board though, right?
Stock studs, steel wheels, drum brakes - shouldn't they be pretty much the
same?
Turns out, not so much:
when I go look at the Dorman selections though, they're all over the place
(and even differentiate between rear and front!).
The heck? Rear wheel studs are different than fronts?
https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsea...el=GTX&origin=YMM&parttype=Wheel%20Lug%20Stud
Keep in mind, I'm talking RH threads here (not LH), 1/2-20.

When my local "real" auto parts store told me they didn't have the "right" studs
recently, they instead handed me some others and said "these should work".
Not so much, turned out - took some honing of stud holes in the hub as well as
some serious pounding and pressing to get them in.
I won't be going that route again....

Which studs did these cars come with originally?
 
Front: Head 0.230", Knurl 0.375", Shoulder 0.675", Threads 0.930", OAL 1.867"
Rear: Head 0.182" Knurl 0.335", Shoulder 0.600", Threads 0.850", OAL 1.676"

IMG_8798.jpg
IMG_8799.jpg
IMG_8800.jpg
 
Front: Head 0.230", Knurl 0.375", Shoulder 0.675", Threads 0.930", OAL 1.867"
Rear: Head 0.182" Knurl 0.335", Shoulder 0.600", Threads 0.850", OAL 1.676"

View attachment 1144674 View attachment 1144675 View attachment 1144676
Thanks! Does Dorman have the correct ones, then?
Why are the rears different? Is there that much difference between the flange on the rear axle vs. the hub in front?
Here's a couple examples I pulled off the old hub on the front of Fred:
studs.jpg
Yeah, at least one of those is wrong for sure....
 
My Dorman book is at work, and will try tomorrow to see if I can see a match. Another member locally here asked me the same for his, but I don't remember the outcome as I have slept a few times since then...
 
My Dorman book is at work, and will try tomorrow to see if I can see a match. Another member locally here asked me the same for his, but I don't remember the outcome as I have slept a few times since then...
I linked to Dorman's website listing all the studs they show for a '68 GTX in my original post above.
Maybe you could have a look at that?
 
Need a book to know, yes the are very different front to rear. Disc and drum are different also.
The front has material to swedge the drum and hub together, rear just goes through the axle flange.
 
I linked to Dorman's website listing all the studs they show for a '68 GTX in my original post above.
Maybe you could have a look at that?
For the front only: Head Dia 0.810", Knurl Dia 0.642", Shoulder Length 0.650", UHL 1.615". Closest match Dorman 610-122 Head Dia 0.805", Knurl Dia 0.650", Shoulder Length 0.625", UHL 1.563"
 
For the front only: Head Dia 0.810", Knurl Dia 0.642", Shoulder Length 0.650", UHL 1.615". Closest match Dorman 610-122 Head Dia 0.805", Knurl Dia 0.650", Shoulder Length 0.625", UHL 1.563"
Ok, I see two sets of dimensions but only one Dorman number here. I'm confused?
 
Need a book to know, yes the are very different front to rear. Disc and drum are different also.
The front has material to swedge the drum and hub together, rear just goes through the axle flange.
Ah, that explains it thank you. So I guess in my pic, the one on the left is correct for front and the right
one might be for the rear?
(They were both on the front when I took it all apart, the attempt of previous owner).
 
Ok, I see two sets of dimensions but only one Dorman number here. I'm confused?
The dimensions after the Dorman number are the dimensions for the Dorman part for comparison with the first numbers which were the dimensions of an original stud.
 
The hub arrived today, all pristine except for a little shelf rust. I know it was originally bought
just for the LH studs in it, so once those were extracted, the part went on the shelf.
That's awesome stuff, right? :thumbsup:
THANK YOU @Chi Town Runner Frank!

I verified it with a spare 11" drum and the stud holes match perfectly, too....
Now for the studs I need:
I took these old studs in the pic above and tried to get them to "start" in the hub lug holes - and
both studs seem a bit too big around??
They ought to at least shoulder up square before a press is needed, shouldn't they?
 
The shoulder would be swedged, so it will pooch out a smidge. Clean the swedge areas with a file, or just drive them home.
 
The shoulder would be swedged, so it will pooch out a smidge. Clean the swedge areas with a file, or just drive them home.
I have to get the right ones first. No way I'm putting any of these old ones back in this new hub...

Were there really that many different front stud choices on these cars in a given year, as Dorman indicates
(and of course, since their application chart shows all that, EVERYONE'S application chart shows it).
What's with all that "Kelsey-Hayes brakes" this, "Motor Wheel brakes" that, "Budd brakes" the other?
Didn't all 11" front drum b-bodies have the same hubs, drums...and therefore, studs?
 
The only thing standard on wheels studs is the nut. 7/16" x 20 or 1/2" x 20 .
So many different hubs, drums, 14", 15" , over the different models and years. Fronts use a separate hub and swedged on drum.
Rear stud is pressed into the axle flange and the drum slips over etc...
You really didn't think it was that simple.....really?
 
Fronts use a separate hub and swedged on drum.
Rear stud is pressed into the axle flange and the drum slips over etc...
Yes, as has been covered by others already.

You really didn't think it was that simple.....really?
Yes, I did - and as it turns out, it is actually - at least on the car/year I was asking specifically about.
Turns out, There was one rear stud and two front studs (same stud profile, just LH or RH thread)
for the 11" drum brake performance cars in '68 (and on several other similar years around then, too).
Further, a lot of other "regular" Chryslers from several years around then shared those same studs, too.

What is muddying the waters on this is Dorman, in all honesty - their application guide shows several
different studs when you look up the car on their guide.
Of course, since most all commercial parts outlets use Dorman, that means all their application guides
for the cars are just as muddy, too.

But now, thanks to @69Bee and @R413 (thank you again, gentlemen!), I've received both an education
and I've been pointed in the right direction for further researching possible sources of getting the correct
studs - versus some that are "close" or "will probably work".

To what those fellows have already posted, I'll add the following part numbers here from digging around
(and some of these are admittedly out of production - remember, these are for RH threaded FRONT studs only):
Manufacturer Part Number
Dorman 610-122 (as @69Bee advises)
Dorman 610-132 (pretty close as well - 2nd choice w/Dorman)
Mopar (Chrysler) 2781566
Raybestos 616R or 0616B
Bendix 142009
Wagner BD61253

Again, most of this stuff has become unobtanium...but one does trip over old stock from time to time.
I'll be having the local "real" parts store fetch me some of the Dormans and having them press them
in to the hub for me; not taking any more chances at this point, because the hub is hard to come by
too!

Thanks everyone! :thumbsup:
 
EPILOGUE:
But wait - there's MORE! Of course there is....there always is.... :)
With all apologies to @MoparLeo , it turns out it wasn't so simple - but only because there was
a misunderstanding on my part with the hub received from @Chi Town Runner .
I'll explain...
The hub was clearly identified by @Chi Town Runner as coming from a '68 Road Runner.
When I did some rudimentary comparing to the old hub on my '68 GTX, all seemed well....
But as I discovered today when I took the "new" hub to the local "real" parts store, the lug holes
in it were NOT the same, hence why the old lugs didn't seem right when I tried them in it before.

The owner of the store fetched the Dormans I specified, which readily became apparent that they
were NOT going to work.
Giving me one of "those" looks, he looked the lugs up in his huge bank of old paper catalogs...
and discovered the number I had given him was actually correct.
He asked if the hub I had presented was actually the right one for the car - and me not knowing
any better said "of course it is - it matches up every which way it needs to".
Well, no, it didn't in one way - namely, the lug holes, but we didn't realize that at the time, so
off he went to fetch some studs that he knew would work.
Bearing races got pressed in, along with the studs he selected and all seemed fine:
hub3.jpg

I get the thing home, pull off the old hub and all that from the GTX and go about
installing the new hub, along with new bearings, seal, all that jazz - and it all went
great...
hub4.jpg
Even the dust cap went on beautifully. Halleluyah!

....up until I went to put the wheel back on, that is.
At that point, I bumped one of the new lugs with the wheel - and it promptly popped
back out of the hub. :BangHead:
At this point, I got good and pissed...
Remembering @khryslerkid and his struggles with lugs on his own build, I was
determined not to weld the lugs on the hub, nor was I going to "glue" the loose
one back in.
Instead, I grabbed one of the old original studs, took it over to the grinder and cut
an angle into the leading edge of the knurl - that sucker was going into the hub,
come hell or high water.
Greased it up, chucked the hub in the vise and got out the big torque wrench, which
I used on the stack of washers and lug nut I had started on the lug...
and buried that sumbeech to the hilt.
"Let's see THAT come loose" I growled...
Off to the car again, reassembled it all, threw the wheel on and torqued the lug nuts
to 90 ft-lbs without further issues.

Later, still wondering what the hell happened with the lugs, I looked up the Dorman
number the parts store owner had come up with and saw it had a knurl diameter of
.621".
Wow, that's considerably smaller than what the GTX should have on it, I thought.
That's when it hit me...
The "new" hub I had fetched from our gracious fellow member, come to find out,
was off a '68 Road Runner! He had told me that from the get-go, but for whatever
reason, I assumed it was the same as for the GTX - and it was, in all areas except
possibly the lug knurl diameter!
Dorman showed that some possible lugs for the Road Runner were actually .625,
which obviously was what the new hub had for lug holes.

Mystery solved - although how I managed to get one of my old, larger lugs from
the GTX to actually bury in one of those smaller holes remains a bit of a kick.
When I get pissed, something is gonna give - often not a good thing, but this time
it was. :thumbsup:

Moral of the story - Ma used different lug knurl sizes for different models, even
those fellow performance models sometimes.
 
Last edited:
Experience is what it is called when things don't go exactly how you thought it should....
Glad you got it figured out.
As Ronny would say, "Trust (the info given by someone) But verify" (That what they told you was in fact true.)
 
Experience is what it is called when things don't go exactly how you thought it should....
Glad you got it figured out.
As Ronny would say, "Trust (the info given by someone) But verify" (That what they told you was in fact true.)
Thanks (and I truly believe RR was our last great president, too) but of course, now I wonder if what I have
is a hub from a Road Runner that had 11" brakes (but smaller lugs) - or did it actually have 10" brakes and
the hubs between the two are similar, except for the lug holes?
To make matters worse, there are no part numbers on these hubs anywhere....confusing.

You know where I'm going with this...
Just how many different hubs are there and how much interchangeability is there amongst them?
How much of the precision locating of drums in alignment with shoes/backing plates is done by the hub,
versus the drums' casting itself?
If all the difference there is between these is lug knurl size, that's comforting for me in my case.
 
I need to fetch a set of wheel studs for the front of my '68 GTX.
11" drums, all stock, running Magnum 500's (steel wheels).
I'd imagine this is pretty standard stuff across the board though, right?
Stock studs, steel wheels, drum brakes - shouldn't they be pretty much the
same?
Turns out, not so much:
when I go look at the Dorman selections though, they're all over the place
(and even differentiate between rear and front!).
The heck? Rear wheel studs are different than fronts?
https://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearch.aspx?year=1968&make=Plymouth&model=GTX&origin=YMM&parttype=Wheel%20Lug%20Stud
Keep in mind, I'm talking RH threads here (not LH), 1/2-20.

When my local "real" auto parts store told me they didn't have the "right" studs
recently, they instead handed me some others and said "these should work".
Not so much, turned out - took some honing of stud holes in the hub as well as
some serious pounding and pressing to get them in.
I won't be going that route again....

Which studs did these cars come with originally?
Funny thing about the measurements. They omit the most important one... the diameter of the knurled part.
 
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