Converter weights 440+6

[ALbabymopar]

Hello fellows, looking for knowledge. 71 runner 6 pak machine. 727 torque converter is to have weights on it. Chrysler dealer parts book does not mention much on converters. Local builder of converted says weights are needed but doesn’t have info of size/ location. Experience appreciated! Thank you, Alan.

 

[pnora]

As far as I know the forged crank used a neutral weighted converter.

 

[33 IMP]

Even with the steel crank, in 70/71 Sixpack motors used the heavier Sixpack rods, and were externally balanced. (Different weight factor than the cast cranks, however.) 69 Sixpack used select LY rods, so neutral balanced.
70/71 Sixpack used a special harmonic damper too.
Later non-sixpack motors used the heavy rods too. There may be info somewhere on those.
I would call PTC converters in Alabama. Owner is a Mopar lover, and will know weights and location.

 

[pnora]

As far as I know the balancer was the only difference. The difference in converters was stall only. All 440's regardless of 4 barrel or 6 pack took the same 3410837 manual flywheel. If weight on the flywheel or converter was a concern one would think a flywheel would also have to be balanced for the intended use. We crossed these motors all the time with no vibrations ever.

 

[6PK2GOBEE]

A&A Transmission has those torque converter weights available with template for proper positioning last I knew.

Home - A&A Transmissions

 

[ALbabymopar]

Gentlemen, thank you for knowledge input. I will continue the quest. Thank you so far!

 

[R413]

There are weights welded on the converter with 6 pack rods. 4bbl and 6bbl cars. Want a photo of them? I have one off the car.

 

[6PK2GOBEE]

Pat Blais had them available on Ebay but I don’t see a listing for them. I would contact him through his Ebay store:tflite_patty

 

[R413]

Easier to find if it’s spelled correctly

 

[69Bee]

Here is the description of a 440 6Pk flywheel, and the angle specs for flywheel balancing. The converters are a bit more vague, but OE convertes would have different weights on it for the different "out of balance" required, but would be welded to the converter on both sides of the drain plug. Here is a Mopar weight kit for a new or neutral balaced converter, P4120241.

RWD Balance Weight/Positioning Template Package - P4120241

 

[69Bee]

As far as I know the balancer was the only difference. The difference in converters was stall only. All 440's regardless of 4 barrel or 6 pack took the same 3410837 manual flywheel. If weight on the flywheel or converter was a concern one would think a flywheel would also have to be balanced for the intended use. We crossed these motors all the time with no vibrations ever.

An externally balanced motor WILL have a balancer with an offset weight, AND the flywheel/converter will also have weights applied too. You cannot balance an external balance motor on one end only, you need to extend the "Balance Planes" on both ends of the crank, or else it will not work correctly.

 

[pnora]

An externally balanced motor WILL have a balancer with an offset weight, AND the flywheel/converter will also have weights applied too. You cannot balance an external balance motor on one end only, you need to extend the "Balance Planes" on both ends of the crank, or else it will not work correctly.

So why is the manual transmission flywheel the same for all 440's?

 

[69Bee]

They are NOT the same. All internally balanced flywheels are neutral balanced, but the cast big blocks and 440 6pk engines were externally balanced.

 

[pnora]

They are NOT the same. All internally balanced flywheels are neutral balanced, but the cast big blocks and 440 6pk engines were externally balanced.

View attachment 1329436View attachment 1329437View attachment 1329438

I understand what you are saying. What I find odd is my 70-71 factory parts manual only shows one flywheel for all 440's.

 

[pnora]

So why is the manual transmission flywheel the same for all 440's?

I will rephrase this to all 70-71 in my parts manual all 440's take the same.

 

[pnora]

 

[69Bee]

I would have to read that last line "w/H/Perf. w/4 Bbl. and 3 2Bbl Carb's PN#3410839 and would agree with you, but in '70-'72 the HP 440 4 Bbls likely used the 6pk rods as they were using them up, hence the same part number. If you look back at my post #10, in the right picture, it states that '70-'72 440-6 Bbl AND 4 Bbl HP used the HD (6pk) connecting rods. This shows why your parts book shows one part number because it was for the 6pk assy which was externally balanced...

 

[PurpleBeeper]

That makes sense if all 70-71 440 4-speed cars are big rod motors (likely). I believe the big rods were in six pack and 4bbl motors 70-73. They definitely used a different harmonic balancer and flywheel. The diagram show is from an old direct connection book which showed how to take a neutral balance flywheel and turn it into a big rod flywheel by drilling holes instead of adding weights. I believe the big rod torque converters get weights too

 

[6PK2GOBEE]

‘70 & ‘71 440 HP all used the same bottom end as the 440 3-2bbl engine heavier rods/external balance.
The bottom end difference came in on non-HP engines which used the standard rods/internal balance.
Somewhere in my factory bulletins it states Mallory mental can be added to the crank eccentric at the back of the engine while using the external harmonic balancer at the front and skip the small external weight on the torque converter.
This is exactly what the FAA certified machine shop did to the bottom end that is in my A12 bee now. Certified to 7500rpm.

 

[ALbabymopar]

There are weights welded on the converter with 6 pack rods. 4bbl and 6bbl cars. Want a photo of them? I have one off the car.

Yes sir, I would like a photo. I can compare it to a 73 converter from a 440 Fury police car. Much appreciated!!, Alan.