Coupe or Hardtop?

Roadrat

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Hello all, long time watcher first time poster.
I'm looking at buying a 70 Roadrunner, non-matching 440, 4-spd, Dana 60. It's a beautiful car, restored 7 years ago. Several issues cause me to pause before I drop some large coin, so perhaps I can get some advice prior to pulling the trigger Monday.
First, there is no fender tag. I've asked the seller, who owns a auto sales business and not a Mopar guy, to contact the previous owner who restored it to see if he still has it.
Next, no build sheet, that the seller is aware of. When I make the 5 hr drive to see it, I will look in all the usual places, but don't have high expectations. I also asked seller to contact previous for that as well
Next, the VIN, on the title, is RM21N0G, which makes it an original 383, coupe, St. Louis build.
I've asked the seller for a pic of the VIN on the dash, as well as radiator rail, and trunk gutter numbers to match. Perhaps tomorrow I'll get it, but can see for myself when I see it in a few days.
Next, the title states Dodge, not Plymouth. Not a big deal, since he's a auto seller, he can provide an affidavit stating it's a Plymouth vice Dodge. Alabama doesn't issues new titles for that old a car anyway, you just keep the title you have, but I would like the registration to reflect the correct make nonetheless.
Finally, what gives me pause is that the VIN, RM21, is a coupe, but the car is clearly a hardtop...rear roll down windows, no post or flip out windows, so it's an RM23. Has anyone seen this before? No fender tag nor build sheet as mentioned to confirm or deny. I will have to confirm the radiator rail and trunk gutter serials with VIN. I suppose it's possible someone converted from coupe to hardtop, but unlikely. Perhaps when I see it I can tell.
The car is super nice, with nice drivetrain, but I want a RR not a clone, especially for the chunk of change I may drop for it, and if I ever resell.
Any thoughts?
 

pnora

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It surely seems like a car that has numbers issues. Before I wasted one second more of my time I would get all the VIN numbers. Dash, core, trunk, and door if possible. There is a reason that registration says Dodge.
 

Jerry Hall

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Run "Forest" Run. Big chunk of change for questionable VIN#, no tag, and bogus title?
 

Jerry Hall

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Alabama does not issue titles on any car prior to 1974. You buy a car here with a Bill of Sale and a current registration, if it's older than 1974. DMV will not even want to see a previous title. You just keep that if it's available for a next owners paper trail. DMV here will verify the VIN# to the car when you register it. If the paperwork doesn't match the car you're basically screwed.
 

Roadrat

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Alabama does not issue titles on any car prior to 1974. You buy a car here with a Bill of Sale and a current registration, if it's older than 1974. DMV will not even want to see a previous title. You just keep that if it's available for a next owners paper trail. DMV here will verify the VIN# to the car when you register it. If the paperwork doesn't match the car you're basically screwed.
I concur. Had the same with my 67 Charger. Everything matches with that one. I will make the drive to see it, find the numbers in the usual areas, attempt to locate a build sheet, and confirm or deny what I'm looking at. This RR has not been registered since 2005, from what my sleuthing has discovered. I queried the owner, and await a response. My guess is he did not since he lives in TN and has a VA title.
Still, I know I may be wasting a 10 hr round trip, but I have to confirm these "issues", for my own piece of mind.
 

Jerry Hall

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I concur. Had the same with my 67 Charger. Everything matches with that one. I will make the drive to see it, find the numbers in the usual areas, attempt to locate a build sheet, and confirm or deny what I'm looking at. This RR has not been registered since 2005, from what my sleuthing has discovered. I queried the owner, and await a response. My guess is he did not since he lives in TN and has a VA title.
Still, I know I may be wasting a 10 hr round trip, but I have to confirm these "issues", for my own piece of mind.
First off, you have a VIN number for a coupe, not a hardtop, second a fender tag isn't on the car, then you have a title to a Dodge from VA, not TN. When you make that 5 hour trip, I doubt you will find numbers at all. If you do they will not match the dash VIN. Consider that this may be a dash from a RR installed in this car. Look at the rivets closely as the tag may have been changed from one car to another. I don't know what the title law is in TN, but without it having a current title, this is also suspect. Proceed with extreme caution.
 

Roadrat

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First off, you have a VIN number for a coupe, not a hardtop, second a fender tag isn't on the car, then you have a title to a Dodge from VA, not TN. When you make that 5 hour trip, I doubt you will find numbers at all. If you do they will not match the dash VIN. Consider that this may be a dash from a RR installed in this car. Look at the rivets closely as the tag may have been changed from one car to another. I don't know what the title law is in TN, but without it having a current title, this is also suspect. Proceed with extreme caution.
Concur. I have considered the 'ol dash swap-a-roo. I am waiting for pics of the dash vin, and rail numbers before making decision to drive Monday.
 

Big Bad Dad

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I am in Virginia. I don't see how a Plymouth could be issued a Dodge title since the VIN is for a Plymouth. They are not really lax about that crap here. I inherited a car. Its a 1967 Buick that I titled and registered before I actually went to get it. I accidentally titled it as a Wildcat when it was actually a LeSabre. Had to jump a couple of hoops just to get that cleared up at the DMV. And no way is the coupe title correct for a hardtop. You are looking at buying an expensive mess that sounds like is in violation of federal laws. No chance of anything stolen?? Yeah, right.....Maybe that's why it's in a not titled state now?
 

pnora

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Today's rules are different. The car in question here might be a Dodge Monaco however it identifies as a Plymouth Road Runner.
 

Dave6T4

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It sounds like Johnny Cash's car. "One piece at a time".
As others have said, "Run away". You could spend your $$$ and find that you bought a stolen car.
 

Sahara

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I doubt if you’ll find a build sheet, if the car has been restored to any degree they would have been found by now. Considering that they lost the fender tag the build sheet won’t have fared any better.
This sounds like a pretty shady car to me. Considering how sloppy they were with important documentation I would be leery of the quality of the restoration, as well. Sounds like it was done in someone’s driveway.
 

Roadrat

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NMVTIS report indicates title in VA, 2006, which is current title I see. Previously titled in KY, 2004. It states a 1970 RR, not stolen or junked, but regurgitated vehicle specs that vin would have as standard equipment, though does state 4spd, but not Dana rear, but the standard 8.75 with 3.23 gears. I do not know the gears in the current Dana, yet.
A VA PPI I just bought confirms titled in VA 2006, says: 1970 Dodge, passenger carrying, 2D HT, green (which is the color, Lime Light Green). That could be a typo because the previous owner from the VA owner had it titled in KY as a 70 Plymouth Satellite hardtop.
The current owner, an auto dealer in TN, bought the car recently to resell on his lot. He stated that the previous owner restored the car 7 years ago.
 

Plybeep68

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You can contact the Department of Revenue for the State of Tennessee, talk to one of there investigators , the investigator for upper east Tennessee I know, they love dealing with Car dealers that scam people, providing it turns out to be bogus
 

pnora

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NMVTIS report indicates title in VA, 2006, which is current title I see. Previously titled in KY, 2004. It states a 1970 RR, not stolen or junked, but regurgitated vehicle specs that vin would have as standard equipment, though does state 4spd, but not Dana rear, but the standard 8.75 with 3.23 gears. I do not know the gears in the current Dana, yet.
A VA PPI I just bought confirms titled in VA 2006, says: 1970 Dodge, passenger carrying, 2D HT, green (which is the color, Lime Light Green). That could be a typo because the previous owner from the VA owner had it titled in KY as a 70 Plymouth Satellite hardtop.
The current owner, an auto dealer in TN, bought the car recently to resell on his lot. He stated that the previous owner restored the car 7 years ago.
You need to buy this car and let us know how you feel later.

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69SportSatellite

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My 2 cents: if you ever have to sell the car you may have similar questions and concerns about documentation from the next buyer.
 

Runcharger

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Title thing is one thing that doesn't sound like a real issue. The real issue is that it is most likely a Satellite with a Road Runner dash swapped in. Any Savvy Mopar guy is going to see that right away and question it. If it had a Satellite VIN without a post I would still question it but I think the money trail points to a dash swap for sure. There's tons of cars for sale out there without this issue, I would look at one of them.
 

HawkRod

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It states a 1970 RR, not stolen or junked...

Yes, that's the VIN, but not the rest of the car.

Seriously, if the seller can't send you good pictures of VIN derivatives from the radiator support and rear trunk rail don't even waste your time. Keep looking, there are other cars out there...
 
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