CVF racing and Cold case radiator with electric fans... anyone running them?

[SpartanGarage]

Having a fitment issue with cold case and CVF racing SERP set up. What had anyone done to make it work? 68 coronet 440 big block

 

[Derwud]

I started with the CVF 2 belt system, but had to abandon it because of F.I. dreams. Went with SD Concepts and gained a little space.
Got a Cold Case Radiator, but had to ditch the Fans as they didn't pull enough air. New Shroud with 2 SPAL fans.

 

[SpartanGarage]

We can get the passenger side fan to fit but driver side is a no go.. I emailed both companies to see what I can do from here.

 

[Mike67]

I think @biomedtechguy runs a similar set up maybe he will chime in.

 

[Derwud]

Real SPAL fans flow more air and are thinner.

 

[Ccas]

The SPAL fans are not going to solve air flow problem unless you are just a tad shy. In tests, our fans pulled 93% as good as SPAL. The main reason why you get SPAL is their brushless design that gives you almost lifetime of use and additional flexibility You'd need bigger fans to pull more air. If you go with smaller fans to gain clearance, the air flow is going to REALLY suffer.

A lot of the pulley companies design the pulley systems for optimal function but sometimes fall short on paying attention to the space problems that might get created.

 

[Derwud]

The SPAL fans are not going to solve air flow problem unless you are just a tad shy. In tests, our fans pulled 93% as good as SPAL. The main reason why you get SPAL is their brushless design that gives you almost lifetime of use and additional flexibility You'd need bigger fans to pull more air. If you go with smaller fans to gain clearance, the air flow is going to REALLY suffer.

A lot of the pulley companies design the pulley systems for optimal function but sometimes fall short on paying attention to the space problems that might get created.

Your Radiator worked fantastic, but the fans just didn't flow enough air at idle. The Slimmer SPAL fans and 4 air flow by-passes in the shroud, brought my temps down to a where they needed to be..

 

[Ccas]

Your Radiator worked fantastic, but the fans just didn't flow enough air at idle. The Slimmer SPAL fans and 4 air flow by-passes in the shroud, brought my temps down to a where they needed to be..

I'm glad the rad worked out. I was more mentioning this for the rest of the readers. The lower temps could absolutely be a function of the shroud design we have with no extra venting. You'd know if you were running hot at speed rather than in traffic. Change the size of the fans? Change any electronics when going from ours to theirs? Another common problem is that without relays and adequate alternator, the fans don't get enough amps and run at a much lower efficiency.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here's my CVF Wraptor(s), Cold Case radiator(s), Cold Case shroud and integrated dual fans, low profile flex fan, aftermarket 18" electric fans, and SPAL saga, in as brief a summary as possible.
FIRST, to answer the OP's question:

Having a fitment issue with cold case and CVF racing SERP set up. What had anyone done to make it work?

The Cold Case dual electric fans and shroud assembly will NOT fit the available space on my Roadrunner.
What has worked the best for me, for both available space and cooling, on my 70 440 6bbl Roadrunner, is a low profile 18" diameter flex fan and spacer, I'm about to put the factory fan shroud back on to see if that improves cooling while stationary/crawling through traffic, and 2x appx 10" SPAL pusher fans. GET SPAL FANS, don't bother with ANY other brand, I know I NEVER will use any electric fan but SPAL, after my experiences.
My dual SPAL fans:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30100320#overview
The space available between the tensioning arm on the CVF Wraptor is the shortest distance between the Wraptor and my radiator. Next closest is probably the AC pulley clutch cover, but the tensioning arm is significantly closer to the radiator than anything else on the front of my 440.
IF I could fit a mechanical fan with larger blades, I would, but the distance between the back (Wraptor/engine side) edge of the fan blades and the tensioning arm is minimal, intentionally, to make the most space possible between the front of the fan and the back of the radiator.
My DERALE flex fan:

Link: https://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/19118/10002/-1
Foolishly, I sold my factory 26" radiator's fan shroud, thinking the 18" electric fan that my vendor swore was the finest and he NEVER had ANY problems with was going to be all I needed. Yeah, it worked great, every time, for about an hour or so until the electric motor burned up, THREE TIMES = Cooling Components brand, on the GTO and the Roadrunner, was a disaster wrapped in a nightmare, while being machine gunned running through a minefield. Avoid like STDs!
My SPAL fans, using ALL of the exact same breakers, relays, wiring, etc work GREAT, and I have them set to turn off above 50 miles per hour because they have no purpose at that speed. When I had my AC system topped off with refrigerant, hood open (inefficient air flow) on a warm 85 degree blue sky day, the SPAL/Derale combo worked fine, car stationary, AC on the whole time. Get dual fan relays of appropriate amperage and a fan controller!! I use my Dakota Digital PAC-2800BT electronic fan control module to control the fans on both cars. Check with tech support for your electric fan sales person and see what they recommend.
26" radiator factory fan shroud for my Roadrunner, eyeballing it for fitment. It looks good enough to try as is, BUT I may trim the fan side of the opening a teeny bit, only if necessary to improve cooling by exposing some of the fan blades.

More pix:

I'm having a weird problem with my Dakota Digital water temp gauge spiking to impossible hot temps, but I don't think it has anything to do with the radiator, pump, etc. I believe it's an air pocket or a defective sender or probe, or wiring fault.
NOTE: The following is about the GTO, and it may be helpful, but you can skip it if you've read what you wanted to know.
I already ruined one CC radiator for the GTO by finding out that 1/2" clearance is NOT enough for the Pontiac factory clutch on the clutch fan to clear, once hot, but it made a beautiful swirl circle in my brand new CC radiator, and had a lovely bright green fountain effect too.

I will NEVER rely solely on an electric fan for primary cooling, because I made that mistake, 3 times on my Roadrunner, once on the GTO.
I'm going to preface the following by saying that I am as sure as I can be that the reason why the GTO is running at and occasionally hotter than 200 degrees is because the Pontiac specific divider plate in the water pump is not within the 1/10th inch gap to the back of the impeller, and I am convinced enough that I am going to have to take EVERYTHING off the front of the engine (including the aluminum bracket for the Wraptor) to access the water pump, remove the front half of the water pump, and the divider plate, and "mold" (beat, heat, pound, tap, curse, cajole) that plate to the required 1/10th inch of the impeller, which is the only way to make the water pump function efficiently. If the measurement is w/in 1/10th inch before I do anything, I'm going to be pissed, and the only remaining culprit for the high temperature operation is the Cold Case radiator, and I don't believe that. Right now it's running the factory radiator and it's still just barely able to keep the coolant temperature at an acceptable range until I can get to that water pump divider plate.
I tried the Cold Case dual electric fans and shroud assembly on the GTO with the Cold Case radiator. It overheated under all circumstances. I'm sending it back, eventually. IF I find the divider plate is the reason why it's running hot, the Cold Case fans and shroud may have worked, but with all that I have learned, if it's not SPAL, I'm NOT INTERESTED!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here's a pic of my setup. In this pic I am eyeballing the factory fan shroud for depth and it looks like it will fit great.

 

[biomedtechguy]

The lower temps could absolutely be a function of the shroud design we have with no extra venting. You'd know if you were running hot at speed rather than in traffic. Change the size of the fans? Change any electronics when going from ours to theirs? Another common problem is that without relays and adequate alternator, the fans don't get enough amps and run at a much lower efficiency.

To address that, I will say again that I believe the ultimate cooling problem with the 421 in my wife's GTO is the divider plate in the water pump, the gap is too big. Needs to be w/in 1/10th of an inch. I've put off doing that deep dive for 5 months now, but I'm going to do it in the next couple of weeks because I have other work at a shop scheduled and I don't want to have the cooling system issue still unresolved.
With that preface, the Cold Case dual electric fans and shroud assembly did NOT work for the GTO. In my opinion, it's the fans. They draw very little current.
As far as customer service goes, and their radiators, in my opinion they are GREAT.
The best fans typically require the higher amp capacity relays/wiring/circuits. Usually around high teens running amps, but they amp spike on startup, requiring no less than a 30 amp relay and circuit. I suggest 10 amps more relay than the spike amp draw.
There are 2 ways to power an electric fan motor: voltage and current. Voltage in a vehicle is limited to about 13 volts, so that leaves current to do the job. Current is expressed in amps.
I went through HELL, relying on a vendor that I bought at least $6K worth of product from, and he swore by Cooling Components and the web reviews on that brand are solid 4-5 out of 5 stars. I regret ever hearing of the brand. IF ONLY the 2 Cooling Components fans, 1 for my Roadrunner and 1 for the GTO worked as required. They could have been perfect!
BUT the night I brought my Roadrunner home, after having maybe $7K worth of parts installed and $9K labor on top of that, the 18" Cooling Components fan motor smoked and failed. Fortunately my breaker tripped, and I was less than a mile from home. The Cold Case radiator is SO GOOD, just the force of the car moving at 45 MPH or faster eliminates the need for fans.
Still having faith in Cooling Components, I had them overnight a fan motor. Cruisin the Coast started that Monday, and that was 2 days away.
I went over everything. Relays and circuits, circuit breakers, alternator output (CVF Wraptor 140 amp) voltage drops...all well within requirements, and more than needed in many cases. In goes fan motor #2, and I'm off to Cruisin The Coast, finally able to show off and enjoy the new additions to my Roadrunner. About 45 minutes in, and less than 10 minutes from the fun, POOF! that tell tale smell of burning electronics, and BAM! 200 amp breaker trips, smoke billowing out from fan motor #2. So I'm on the phone to get my Roadrunner towed back home. I go over everything with THE owner of Cooling Components fans, and I have professional experience with electrical equipment, circuits, etc, and I think I may have found the culprit (now I don't even remember what that was, but it wasn't I'd soon see). Yes, the manufacturer knows his stuff, and swears that his product is trouble free. NONE of these fan motors are warranty covered because he believes it's not the motors, so the wallet bleeding continues. This time, fan motor #3 comes from my wife's Cooling Components fan, because it is the identical motor although her fan was a 17" not 18".
Hopes are high as I drive towards Cruisin the Coast, but on the way up the high bridge into Mississippi, POOF! that smell again. I get on the gas hard, so as to not stall on the Interstate on a high rise 2 lane 70 MPH bridge. I made it over the top and the 200 amp main breaker trips, and I coast onto the shoulder. This time I decided to just turn around and drive back home, because I have ZERO lights the whole way, and other than a traffic circle close to home, the speeds are all 45-70 mph so the radiator needs no fan to run cool, cool enough to make it.
I finally had enough of the BULLSHIT and decided to go with what I had originally thought of, before I got the one 18" electric fan. The low profile small blade depth 18" mechanical flex fan, and dual 10" SPAL pusher fans. NO PROBLEM AT ALL with the dual SPAL brand fans since!!
Understand too that the Cooling Components 18" fan was a 2 speed fan, so it has 2 power circuit wiring pigtails. In other words, it gets connected to 2 relays, and the rest of the circuit is like running 2 fans. Low speed is one 12v circuit, and high speed triggers the other 12v circuit to engage, making the fan run on 24 volts in high speed mode.
I'm using ALL of the exact same everything to run the 2 SPAL fans. Low speed (fan #1) comes on at 190° and shuts off at 185° Fan #2 comes on at 195° and shuts off at 190°. Both fans run when I turn on the AC system irregardless of anything else. Neither fan runs (except if the AC is on, I think) when the Dakota Digital gauge system tells the fan controllers the car is going 50 miles per hour or faster.

 

[Derwud]

I am thinking of switching to the CVF Wraptor.. You may have sold me on it!! Does the fan spin in the "Normal" direction?

Also I am having the same issue with my Dakota Digital Coolant readout... I get my temp from the Edelbrock PF4 on a CAN/BUS adapter.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I am thinking of switching to the CVF Wraptor.. You may have sold me on it!! Does the fan spin in the "Normal" direction?

Also I am having the same issue with my Dakota Digital Coolant readout... I get my temp from the Edelbrock PF4 on a CAN/BUS adapter.

Yes, the fan spins in the normal direction. Look at the pitch on the blades of my flex fan and know that that pulls air through my radiator.
KEY UPDATES!
I am happy...
After removing the Stant 180° SuperStat strictly as part of my troubleshooting regimen, and topping off the radiator again, I still had a temperature spike right then, without moving the car,
BUT
I shut it off, waited about 10 minutes, and opened the radiator cap ½ turn. Nothing. The next ½ turn would remove the radiator cap, so I exerted pressure on it and turned it to open, and about 2 tablespoons of coolant came out, and I closed it because I didn't want more to come out. I got back in the car and turned the key only to power my DD gauges, so I could check the water temperature. I heard "GLUG-GLUG" very noticeable come from under the hood, I assume from the radiator. I felt the radiator that had been hot top ½ and barely warm bottom ½ was now the same temperature top to bottom, uncomfortable to hold my hand on it.
That air escaping (moving upward) may have come from the bottom hose, I don't know, BUT it has been a game changer so far, NO MORE TEMPERATURE SPIKES.
To keep from getting too long winded, I will cut to the chase:
CVF Racing customer service and standing behind their products? OUTSTANDING!! I found some chrome on the alternator of the GTO (mine is Black Diamond, the GTO is polished aluminum) had about 5 or 6 tiny flecks where it had come off. Although tiny, that is unacceptable. CVF shipped a replacement, immediately, and let me keep the original one they sent out!
The vanes of the water pump are CAST, not crappy stamped steel, and high volume. The AC compressor is SO FINE looking, I deleted the hideous one from the Vintage Air system, on both the GTO and Roadrunner. I chose the attached reservoir for my power steering pump, but I got the remote reservoir for the GTO. Consider that choice, and if I were not relocating my battery to the trunk, I would have preferred the remote reservoir as the battery tray makes access to the reservoir cap difficult.
I don't know what else to add, other than BOTH CVF Wraptor setups have been GREAT, but you will lose some space between it and the radiator.
I went ahead and ordered a replacement factory fan shroud (because I foolishly sold mine) as it definitely will fit and I'm confident it will help. The only thing that I would change on my setup is I would have a mechanical fan that pulls more air if I could, and I may one day, but I'll know soon enough where I stand.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here's the polished version on the GTO in action:

 

[tgc]

We can get the passenger side fan to fit but driver side is a no go.. I emailed both companies to see what I can do from here.

Did you figure out a solution to your issue? I also am having fitment issues on my 71 GTX with coldcase radiator with dual electric fans with the CVF wraptor serpentine setup.

Did you end up switching back to mechanical fans with pusher electric setup?

Thanks for any feedback

 

[biomedtechguy]

Did you figure out a solution to your issue? I also am having fitment issues on my 71 GTX with coldcase radiator with dual electric fans with the CVF wraptor serpentine setup.
Did you end up switching back to mechanical fans with pusher electric setup?
Thanks for any feedback

I will NEVER rely solely on an electric fan for primary cooling, NEVER. I still have to install the factory fan shroud in my Roadrunner, but the low profile (see pic) 18" Durale flex fan stays, as do the dual SPAL pusher fans. My water temperature gauge/sender/probe/wiring has some kind of problem. Other than the weird, impossibly high temperature spikes, the time before last that I ran my Roadrunner, it indicated a short on my Dakota Digital dash. The last time I ran my Roadrunner, just long enough to back it out of the garage, and then later drive it back in, the temp gauge behaved normally.
I still haven't messed with the GTO.

 

[tgc]

I will NEVER rely solely on an electric fan for primary cooling, NEVER. I still have to install the factory fan shroud in my Roadrunner, but the low profile (see pic) 18" Durale flex fan stays, as do the dual SPAL pusher fans. My water temperature gauge/sender/probe/wiring has some kind of problem. Other than the weird, impossibly high temperature spikes, the time before last that I ran my Roadrunner, it indicated a short on my Dakota Digital dash. The last time I ran my Roadrunner, just long enough to back it out of the garage, and then later drive it back in, the temp gauge behaved normally.
I still haven't messed with the GTO.

Thanks, for the reply

 

[tgc]

I will NEVER rely solely on an electric fan for primary cooling, NEVER. I still have to install the factory fan shroud in my Roadrunner, but the low profile (see pic) 18" Durale flex fan stays, as do the dual SPAL pusher fans. My water temperature gauge/sender/probe/wiring has some kind of problem. Other than the weird, impossibly high temperature spikes, the time before last that I ran my Roadrunner, it indicated a short on my Dakota Digital dash. The last time I ran my Roadrunner, just long enough to back it out of the garage, and then later drive it back in, the temp gauge behaved normally.
I still haven't messed with the GTO.

I noticed in post #9 you linked to the SPAL electric fans that you are using. Looks like they are puller fans but you have them mounted to the front of the radiator. I understand pushers go in the front of the radiator.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I noticed in post #9 you linked to the SPAL electric fans that you are using. Looks like they are puller fans but you have them mounted to the front of the radiator. I understand pushers go in the front of the radiator.

They are pushers on my radiator.
I looked up my Summit order, and these are the 2 SPAL electric pusher fans I bought that are working well! Same one I linked in the post you referenced.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30100320

 

[tgc]

They are pushers on my radiator.
I looked up my Summit order, and these are the 2 SPAL electric pusher fans I bought that are working well! Same one I linked in the post you referenced.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/spu-ix-30100320
View attachment 1120478

interesting, the description shows it as a pusher in the upper description and as a puller down in the overview.

that one in a little confusing