Define Valve Lashing...

[cr8crshr]

OK....I am having the most difficult time getting my roller rockers to quiet down on a newly re-built 383. Just some quick particulars...

1965 383 block with stock crank, rods, 516 heads,etc. Pistons are HP slugs and the cam is a mild 2328 from Hughes. I am also using their MOPAR specific .906 hydraulic lifters and push rods with Comp Cams valve springs rated for a max lift of .525. The cam has a max lift @ 1.5 rocker ratio of .518. New valve guides, hardened seats, shims to get the springs equal, keepers and guides. Now before I get hammered for using them, I am running the CAT roller rockers. They are the same ones as on my last 383 build which is exactly the same as this one. I have had no issues with them what so ever. The valve covers are the MOPAR Aluminum Black wrinkle ones and I have the 'baffles installed in them.

Any way...I am still getting noise out of the left and right valve covers after lashing the rockers on 3 previous occasions. This time I backed them out fully and then using Don Taylor's Big Block Book which is my build bible, I re-lashed them again. Motor fired right up but I am still getting chatter. Now here is the question????

When lashing the valves/rockers what is the acceptable and most common way of determining the "resistance" when setting the lash. Is it when the rocker adjuster ball is seated in the push rod cup and no longer will move up or down but still turn or rotate while in position?????? And then adding say a 1/2 turn additional to fully set them or...

Using the same above technique, obtain resistance up and down along with the no rotation of the push rod and then a 1/2 turn to set them?

The key word here is "Resistance". I have had them too tight and no engine fire up so that is not the issue now. Just cannot get them to quiet down and it is really getting annoying trying to get them to quit. Other than that, the motor is running and no leaks...unless you leave the valve covers loose on the head and you wind up with an oil spill underneath and smoke in the shop from the oil burning on the exhaust...:angryfire:

 

[RustyRatRod]

With the lifter all the way DOWN in its bore (cam lobe on base circle), tighten the adjuster until all slop is gone between the pushrod cup of the rocker and the lifter plunger. Then set your preload. 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn.....whatever. I like preload on the light side. But then.....I usually run solid. Some rockers are simply noisy. Stupid question, but are you sure you have the rocker shafts on correctly? Oiling holes should point towards the valve springs, not towards the intake valley.

 

[daredevil]

Also are you sure the geometry is right? Rollers making a nice contact on the valve tip all the way thru the cycle.

 

[Hemi Rebel]

OK....I am having the most difficult time getting my roller rockers to quiet down on a newly re-built 383. Just some quick particulars...

1965 383 block with stock crank, rods, 516 heads,etc. Pistons are HP slugs and the cam is a mild 2328 from Hughes. I am also using their MOPAR specific roller rockers and push rods with Comp Cams valve springs rated for a max lift of .525. The cam has a max lift @ 1.5 rocker ratio of .518. New valve guides, hardened seats, shims to get the springs equal, keepers and guides. Now before I get hammered for using them, I am running the CAT roller rockers. They are the same ones as on my last 383 build which is exactly the same as this one. I have had no issues with them what so ever.

Any way...I am still getting noise out of the left and right valve covers after lashing the rockers on 3 previous occasions. This time I backed them out fully and then using Don Taylor's Big Block Book which is my build bible, I re-lashed them again. Motor fired right up but I am still getting chatter. Now here is the question????

When lashing the valves/rockers what is the acceptable and most common way of determining the "resistance" when setting the lash. Is it when the rocker adjuster ball is seated in the push rod cup and no longer will move up or down but still turn or rotate while in position?????? And then adding say a 1/2 turn additional to fully set them or...

Using the same above technique, obtain resistance up and down along with the no rotation of the push rod and then a 1/2 turn to set them?

The key word here is "Resistance". I have had them too tight and no engine fire up so that is not the issue now. Just cannot get them to quiet down and it is really getting annoying trying to get them to quit. Other than that, the motor is running and no leaks...unless you leave the valve covers loose on the head and you wind up with an oil spill underneath and smoke in the shop from the oil burning on the exhaust...:angryfire:

I set the rockers so that it just barely makes zero lash. If the lifters are not pumped up it takes basically nothing to start to push the plunger down so you really need to go gently witth them. You should definitely be able to spin the pushrod. Then from there go 1/4 turn. I know a guy that sets them at zero and leaves it at that. Of course all of this is done with the lifter on the heel of the cam. Question, what kind of oil pressure do you have?

 

[RustyRatRod]

Word of caution. You CAN run zero or near zero lash with hydraulic lifters......you can even run LASH. However....and this is a BIG however, you GOTTA have the right lifters to do it. Standard hydraulic lifters have a cheap *** little wire retaining the plunger. Do NOT run those with near zero, zero or lash. They will pop the wire retainer out and the lifter will come apart. You need to run a sho nuff anti pump up lifter, OR a heavy duty hydraulic lifter. Either of those will have a flat, heavy duty snap ring retaining the plunger. They will not come out. ...and if they "claim" to be a heavy duty or anti pump lifter but have the wire retainer, DON'T BUY THEM. They are craptastic crappola crappomosomous.

Here's examples. The first lifter is a craptastic piece of dookey. I wouldn't run that in anything. The second one is what I am talking about. That's the good ones. I don't care who makes um. If they ain't got that flat snap ring, they ain't diddly doodoo. There's a LOT of lifters out there like that too. They ain't got no business in any kinda high performance engine. I wouldn't put um in a stock 2 barrel motor. JUNK.

 

[Bad Sport]

This may be a stupid question, but do you have baffles in the covers? Could they possibly be hitting them and tapping?

 

[RustyRatRod]

This may be a stupid question, but do you have baffles in the covers? Could they possibly be hitting them and tapping?

LMAO. That's a LOT better than a stupid question. Sheer genius I say. lol

 

[Meep-Meep]

Zero lash means that all the excessive clearance in the valve train is gone and it can require a delicate touch to find zero lash without moving the plunger. Being able to see the plunger is better yet. Mine are at one turn and no problems to 6000 + RPM.

 

[BIGSHCLUNK]

This may be a stupid question, but do you have baffles in the covers? Could they possibly be hitting them and tapping?

Hey, I can remember a 460 blue oval that i did years ago. Got lazy and just RTV'd the covers...... guess what???????

 

[RustyRatRod]

Hey, I can remember a 460 blue oval that i did years ago. Got lazy and just RTV'd the covers...... guess what???????

I know I know.....you used blue RTV and you couldn't tell where the RTV ended and the blue oval began.


sorry, couldn't help myself. lol

 

[440roadrunner]

CR8, you quoted a book as being your method. I don't know what that IS. Can you detail just exactly how you did this?

IE are you sure you have the lifters on the backside of the cam when setting them?

I use what is called the EOIC method.

This means you turn the engine....................

until the EXHAUST just begins to OPEN and set that intake

Then you turn the engine.....................

until the INTAKE opens and nearly CLOSES and set the exhaust on that cylinder

 

[67 B-body]

Some of the aftermarket rockers and aftermarket springs/retainers don't mix well.... I have seen the rocker be so thick around the shaft that it actually can touch the larger retainers when the rocker gets part way through its motion. I have seen some people grind out this area of the rocker to achieve clearance.... It's right where the section of the rocker that goes around the rocker shaft and transitions into the lower part of the arm as it directs towards the valve.
See the picture below as it indicates being designed to except larger valve springs.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Absolutely. This is one area where you really have to watch it. chebbies have wussie 1.25" OD valve springs. The industry sometimes forgets that there ARE companies out there that used REAL valve springs in their engines. Lots of variables to check for, sho nuff.

 

[99ss]

Absolutely. This is one area where you really have to watch it. chebbies have wussie 1.25" OD valve springs. The industry sometimes forgets that there ARE companies out there that used REAL valve springs in their engines. Lots of variables to check for, sho nuff.

carefull there.. Cheby's have a better valvetrain.. by far

 

[RustyRatRod]

carefull there.. Cheby's have a better valvetrain.. by far

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You should go on the road with that act.

 

[99ss]

Hehehehe... I asked my builder one day about it and he said the Mopar stuff was effed... if you want big power and reliability its stupid money.... He is a fan of how Cheby does it even though his personal muscle car is a Rustang..LOL

 

[cr8crshr]

This may be a stupid question, but do you have baffles in the covers? Could they possibly be hitting them and tapping?

Not stupid at all. I went back and edited my original post as I omitted some info that has been addressed here. The valve covers do have the baffles installed as I assumed...there's that freakin' word again...that that was the correct setup. Still learning as I go. It seems to me that I remember reading on one of these sites a number of years ago, that the MOPAR after market Aluminum valve covers were not as tall as the originals. So your point is well taken. I am taking today to formulate my plan on this and will remove them in the next day or 2 and see if that will quiet things down. Its hard to explain a lot here without you all seeing it. I have done this exact same mechanical build on my first 383 and I re-used the original valve covers. So you just might have actually figured out my problem for me ....:headbang::blob1::blob1::blob1:

 

[cr8crshr]

CR8, you quoted a book as being your method. I don't know what that IS. Can you detail just exactly how you did this?

IE are you sure you have the lifters on the backside of the cam when setting them?

I use what is called the EOIC method.

This means you turn the engine....................

until the EXHAUST just begins to OPEN and set that intake

Then you turn the engine.....................

until the INTAKE opens and nearly CLOSES and set the exhaust on that cylinder

The book is How to Build Big Block Mopar Engines by Don Taylor. He is one of the respected builders of Mopar motors and has both SB and BB books out. I used this book on my first build and it worked flawlessly. Everything except the Valve Covers on this build is the same as my first one so I haven't deviated from it at all. As for the suggested way of lashing the valves, his works and actually complements what Hughes Engines has on their web site. The Cam is a Hughes, the lifters are Hughes, etc. I don't have the lashing sequence here at hand right now, but I have not had any issues previously. The rocker geometry is spot on too. Any way...Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I like the "BAFFLE" question the best, I will also re-lash from where I am at at present and see what takes place. I have already gone too much on the Lash with the motor not even firing so that won't happen again. Just taking it one step at a time....

 

[69a100]

He uses the 180* method unlike Mopars 90* method is what he's sayin!

 

[440roadrunner]

The book is How to Build Big Block Mopar Engines by Don Taylor. He is one of the respected builders of Mopar motors and has both SB and BB books out. I used this book on my first build and it worked flawlessly. Everything except the Valve Covers on this build is the same as my first one so I haven't deviated from it at all. As for the suggested way of lashing the valves, his works and actually complements what Hughes Engines has on their web site. The Cam is a Hughes, the lifters are Hughes, etc. I don't have the lashing sequence here at hand right now, but I have not had any issues previously. The rocker geometry is spot on too. Any way...Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I like the "BAFFLE" question the best, I will also re-lash from where I am at at present and see what takes place. I have already gone too much on the Lash with the motor not even firing so that won't happen again. Just taking it one step at a time....

That is not what I asked. I don't want to read a book, and I don't need an advertisement ABOUT that book ---- and I might just have that very one. I want to know how YOU are doing it, and what steps you took to make CERTAIN that the cam lobes were on the backside (heels) when you set them.

If you are using the Hughes method, this IS the so called 90* method:

http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/productInstructions/ValveAdjust.pdf

and also matches the Mopar chart:

As I said before, I use the EOIC method, because then I don't have to worry about firing order. That method works on any engine from B&S to Pratt & Whitney, as long as it's 4 stroke and has poppet valves.