Does your engine burn much oil?

Kern Dog

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I don't know what it is but I always seem to deal with engines that use oil.
MY 2007 Ram 1500 sure does. It leaks a little but will lose a quart in around 1000 miles or less. My '70 Charger 440/493 used to use oil too. In a 900 mile road trip, I lost 2 quarts. I never noticed any smoking from it. It leaks a bit too, as many of these classic engines seem to do.
I have had several cars over the years that seem to either hold oil forever or lose it at a rate that seems to be excessive.
Our 2015 Challenger rarely seems down on oil when I do an oil change but it has under 50k on it.
The Ram has 382,000 so I expect some oil usage.
With the Charger, I do what I can to seal the valve covers and oil pan but still get seepage. THis picture is when I had the 727 but the condition continues. The RH header gets oil on it frequently.

10-19 B.jpg


I'd love to improve on this. Any suggestions? I have tried the one piece plastic windage tray and it leaked worse since this Milodon 6 quart pan is 1/4" shorter than a stock pan. I've heard of Superformance gaskets.....
Regarding the internal loss of oi, I'm hoping the new rings will seal better than the old ones. The cranking compression was fairly even though.
 

dvw

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Leaks are going to increase usage .My shop teacher used to tell us a drop a mile was a quart in a thousand miles. I have a Magnum with a 3.5. It's always used oil. No leaks. Ive had numerous 3.6 Mopar engines. None have used oil. None of my other stuff gets enough miles to really get a read on it . My 95 Cummins (224K) doesn't seem to use any despite some small leaks. It's only used to tow the racecar. So maybe 3000 miles a year.
Doug
 

Wietse

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My Coronet loses the oil that leaks from my rear crank seal area, not sure it's the shaft seal or the retainer but hope to find out soon since my transmission is out of the car.
It seems not to use any oil by driving really and does not smoke at all.
I would try start with the pan rail to see if it is deformed, specially around the bolt holes tend to "bend" by too much tightening, flatten that out if this is the case.
I used the Felpro cork gaskets (incl. windage tray) and use a small layer of sealant on the gaskets and have had no leaks.
Another point to check is where the block, oil pan and timing cover meet on the front, that corner is also know for causing leaks.
A dot of permatex in that corner before installing pan and timing cover should seal.
By the looks of it you will be looking on the sides or front section since it's even getting on the headers.

Not sure if you are using a pcv valve on the valve cover?
Without pcv you will get a slight over pressure in the crankcase that can create leaks as well.
 

Don Frelier

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My daily is a 2000 300-M with a 3.5l. Over 180K and it will go 5,000 on a quart of synthetic (like clockwork).
I change it at 7,500 twice a year.

The 5.2 magnum in my Dakota is similar maybe 4,000 a quart it doesn't get as much use so I don't keep real good track of it.
It only has about 30K on it since it was rebuilt.

The 383 in my Charger is starting to really consume oil, 25 years and 35K since the rebuild it's worse since I put the new cam and aluminum heads on it.
I probably should have honed and re-ringed it when it was out last year. It doesn't seem to smoke blue when you start it but when you wind it up down the road you can see a haze behind you.
 

diesel_lv

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My daily is a 2000 300-M with a 3.5l. Over 180K and it will go 5,000 on a quart of synthetic (like clockwork).
I change it at 7,500 twice a year.

The 5.2 magnum in my Dakota is similar maybe 4,000 a quart it doesn't get as much use so I don't keep real good track of it.
It only has about 30K on it since it was rebuilt.

The 383 in my Charger is starting to really consume oil, 25 years and 35K since the rebuild it's worse since I put the new cam and aluminum heads on it.
I probably should have honed and re-ringed it when it was out last year. It doesn't seem to smoke blue when you start it but when you wind it up down the road you can see a haze behind you.
The haze while cruising could be rings or bad baffling at pcv and sucking oil up that way. A puff of smoke, which you said you don't have, is typically valve stem seals.
 

ckessel

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I've had great results on the leak issue when the engine is out of the car for sealing. In, not so much. Seems like if you can let the sealer do its things before adding the fluids or starting up just after assembly helps. Consumption of the oil can be from other areas like rings, guides, gaskets, mating surfaces with issues etc. If you are running valve covers with no or minimal baffling, that needs to be addressed. Years ago I put some chrome Moroso covers on the 340 in my Duster. No baffles and the PCV was right above a rocker. Sucked it right out. I McGyvered a baffled cap in there and the problem went away. Low quality, thinner viscosity oils exabarate the consumption problem, especially on late model stuff with all of the squirters/VVT/MDS etc as there is more mist being generated allowing it to get pulled out so you can kill Skeeters. If you are using cast covers, see if you can improve the baffling in them to help shield better. On my car, I'm going to run a catch can from these guys. thecatchcanguys.com. They have some very good info on their site. I pinged on them after I did the first oil change on the 13 Flex we have. 3.5 Ecoboost V6. I pulled the charge air pipes off so I could pull the spark plugs and antisieze them before they got welded to the heads. When I pulled the pipes off, there was oil inside them. Hmm, WTF? New car. Ford said that was normal. Of course. So I started surfing the net and found these guys. I have not put one on the car as it doesn't use oil. What happens on the unit is when it transitions from boost to no boost the ccv/pcv has a hard time keeping up to control the mist. One of the reasons you see late model people putting catch cans on boosted and non boosted engines. Their unit is not just an empty can. Its a coalescing unit that separates the oil out so it doesn't get into the combustion chamber.
 

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A couple of thoughts:

In my 05 Hemi Ram, it was using about a quart between oil changes (no leaks). I went up 30W oil and now oil loss is much less. It does not get cold here much, so I thought it was safe to do so.

I also run one of my ratty drivers on 50W to keep oil loss down. The motor is a used 68 440 HP that is +.060, and my guess is that the overbore was too much for this block and it is not sealing well when hot. The bores looked fresh when I got it, but I didn't pull it apart to check bearings and rings... I just threw heads on it and ran it. I can't complain too much about it considering the used short block was $100 and I've been driving it for 20 years.... .but the 50W is definitely helping.

I run two of my drivers without a windage tray. It's much easier to seal up the pan and the HP loss is indeterminable.
 

topside

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KernDog, your photo looks like rear main seal & maybe valve cover leakage. Both pretty common on BBs. My SB race motor too, but not much.
That & internal usage varies. I have a 310K-mile Breeze that doesn't leak but has always used a quart per 7-800 miles. 210K on a Pathfinder, no usage, minor weepage up top; rear main seal is tired though. I've only had 1 Chevy that didn't weep at pretty much every seam. The 454 burns no oil @ 50K, but the Target 350 in my K10 pushes it past its valve guides when it sits for a couple weeks, then clears up. My '97 Mustang GT has no usage/drips at 51K. My BB Mopar street motors generally haven't burned any oil until maybe 130K. That sampling is over 45 years or so, and at least 20 cars.
 

Ron H

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Sore subject after getting my daughter a used SUV she loved, ’06 Honda CRV. This was a few months before we would be moving her to Miami for a job out of college. Being pretty routine checking fluids, found her CRV was down 2 quarts of oil after she had driven maybe 1,000 miles. Filled it up, and be damned, down another quart. At that time she lived about 75 miles away. Next time, dang, down 2 qts! Enough to calc the ride drank a qt every 1000 miles. It had 68k on it then. Got her to make oil checking a weekly ritual keeping a couple quarts in the car.

Had her take it to the local Honda dealer by her for so they could check it out. Meantime started doing research on this era Honda finding tons of angry reviews about guzzling oil. The dealer recommended putting in a qt of trans oil at every oil change. Contacted Honda about this shit show and they tell me a qt per 1000 is NORMAL. I begged to differ citing the multitude of vehicles I’ve owned with NOTHING like this, including my ’63 Plymouth. I mentioned that at the recommended oil changes, the oil would be near EMPTY if not adding oil. THIS is normal? Yeah, I asked them again to tell me this is normal…and they did. Fuckers.

And since knowing my kid was moving 1200 miles away, I bought the BEST extended warranty. Well guess what – that warranty deftly excluded what the problem was with this era motor – shit rings. Given the massive number of complaints, this should have been a recall; but Honda buzzed around this. How nice for the environment, huh? Did I say Fuckers?
 

RM23M9A

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I don't know what it is but I always seem to deal with engines that use oil.
MY 2007 Ram 1500 sure does. It leaks a little but will lose a quart in around 1000 miles or less. My '70 Charger 440/493 used to use oil too. In a 900 mile road trip, I lost 2 quarts. I never noticed any smoking from it. It leaks a bit too, as many of these classic engines seem to do.
I have had several cars over the years that seem to either hold oil forever or lose it at a rate that seems to be excessive.
Our 2015 Challenger rarely seems down on oil when I do an oil change but it has under 50k on it.
The Ram has 382,000 so I expect some oil usage.
With the Charger, I do what I can to seal the valve covers and oil pan but still get seepage. THis picture is when I had the 727 but the condition continues. The RH header gets oil on it frequently.

View attachment 1305340

I'd love to improve on this. Any suggestions? I have tried the one piece plastic windage tray and it leaked worse since this Milodon 6 quart pan is 1/4" shorter than a stock pan. I've heard of Superformance gaskets.....
Regarding the internal loss of oi, I'm hoping the new rings will seal better than the old ones. The cranking compression was fairly even though.
You using a 50w oil? Ive noticed since switching to say Brad Penn 20w/50, Ive gained valve cover "Seep", oil pan gasket "Seepage" and what looks like coming from PCV leak... Must just be thicker oil = MORE force on gaskets. Lots of oil pressure, 80 PSI on cold start up (440 Six Pack)... Switched to 10w/30 for a month last year, leak STOPPED
 

69 Sleeper Bee

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My mechanic neighbor says a lot of the new vehicles have such thin rings to reduce friction which in turn increases gas mileage that 1 to 2 quarts of oil per 1000 miles is not unusual.
 

Ron H

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Have had two Hyundai Sonata’s with the six engine – best rides I’ve owned in a long list of vehicles in all the 45 years considering maintenance/repairs. When I got the 1st one (an ’07) impressed me enough to get another; but wanted the six, not 4 motor, so I hunted for an ’09 being the last year they offered that engine in the Sonata model finding one with only 9k on it around 6-7 years ago. Handed the old one off to my kid who lives in the city with crap streets and mostly, well, city driving. It now has 235,000 miles on it and rarely needs a quart btw oil changes..
 

Wietse

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Sore subject after getting my daughter a used SUV she loved, ’06 Honda CRV. This was a few months before we would be moving her to Miami for a job out of college. Being pretty routine checking fluids, found her CRV was down 2 quarts of oil after she had driven maybe 1,000 miles. Filled it up, and be damned, down another quart. At that time she lived about 75 miles away. Next time, dang, down 2 qts! Enough to calc the ride drank a qt every 1000 miles. It had 68k on it then. Got her to make oil checking a weekly ritual keeping a couple quarts in the car.

Had her take it to the local Honda dealer by her for so they could check it out. Meantime started doing research on this era Honda finding tons of angry reviews about guzzling oil. The dealer recommended putting in a qt of trans oil at every oil change. Contacted Honda about this shit show and they tell me a qt per 1000 is NORMAL. I begged to differ citing the multitude of vehicles I’ve owned with NOTHING like this, including my ’63 Plymouth. I mentioned that at the recommended oil changes, the oil would be near EMPTY if not adding oil. THIS is normal? Yeah, I asked them again to tell me this is normal…and they did. Fuckers.

And since knowing my kid was moving 1200 miles away, I bought the BEST extended warranty. Well guess what – that warranty deftly excluded what the problem was with this era motor – shit rings. Given the massive number of complaints, this should have been a recall; but Honda buzzed around this. How nice for the environment, huh? Did I say Fuckers?

My wife's Audi A1 TFSI 1.4 is just a similar oil boat, 60K miles on it and adding 0.5ltr oil frequently while driven mileage is not that much. (5W30 full synth.)
I never checked how many miles against the top-up but I think it is excessive.
Though this engine is one of them modern ones that are known for their oil consumption, it scares people away from buying them but actually there is no harm really.
It's a small displacement engine, turbo and supercharged to get the performance, when at high loads all rings will fall in their right clearance and seal as they should but for normal grocery shopping the drive spirit is not enough and they will consume oil.
If checking cylinder pressures you will find them even and ok, meaning there are no real issues as excessive wear, etc.
It's just the nature as they are build, still performance but constricted with all the emission bullsh*t attached as well.
 

khryslerkid

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I've always heard that synthetic oils will leak more than your conventional oils.

I used to guage when the oil needs changed in an engine at the time all of a sudden you'll loose a half to a quart. That's when certain properties break down in the oil and its time for a change. Might be 3,000 miles, might be 5,000. Each engine I've owned were different. Normally it would be close to the manufacturers recommend oil change interval.

These new cars that are using 0w 20w are doing 7,500 mile changes and the oil filter is smaller than the one on my riding mower!

I have a slight rear main seal leak in my 215k mile 4.7 Dakota. Lots of work to pull the trans or engine to get at it so I'm trying the Lucas Stop Leak. It's slowed up a little. Quieter valve train using it and a little better oil pressure. Thought it would be a good vehicle to try it out on.
 

ChryslerKid

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I've always heard that synthetic oils will leak more than your conventional oils.

I used to guage when the oil needs changed in an engine at the time all of a sudden you'll loose a half to a quart. That's when certain properties break down in the oil and its time for a change. Might be 3,000 miles, might be 5,000. Each engine I've owned were different. Normally it would be close to the manufacturers recommend oil change interval.

These new cars that are using 0w 20w are doing 7,500 mile changes and the oil filter is smaller than the one on my riding mower!

I have a slight rear main seal leak in my 215k mile 4.7 Dakota. Lots of work to pull the trans or engine to get at it so I'm trying the Lucas Stop Leak. It's slowed up a little. Quieter valve train using it and a little better oil pressure. Thought it would be a good vehicle to try it out on.
About the synthetic leaking more, ive always heard that it will clean the grime that is acting as a seal in old motors making them leak. Well i figured I would test this "myth" myself when I first got my cordoba. That car didnt leak a single drop of oil with the original engine. I ran royal purple 10w30 full synthetic for about 3-4 months and holy crap. I put it on the lift one day and timing cover, oil pan, front and rear main seal had started leaking so bad the entire bottom of the engine was completely covered in oil. Now I stick to conventional unless I just resealed the motor.
 

Wietse

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Keep in mind though, it is not the oil it's fault, it exposing the flaws that were already there in the first place.
 

ChryslerKid

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Keep in mind though, it is not the oil it's fault, it exposing the flaws that were already there in the first place.
Very true, I just happen to be the stubborn asshat type that prefers to learn by falling on my own face as opposed to listening to others who have been down the same road.
 

Wietse

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Very true, I just happen to be the stubborn asshat type that prefers to learn by falling on my own face as opposed to listening to others who have been down the same road.
It is the best and fastest way to learn though, we all fall for that from time to time :)

Just trying to emphasize that, as things like leaks happen when changing to synthetic oils, people start calling out things as "bad oil" "synthetic oil is not for this engine", etc. while the blame is either on themselves or it simply exposes a problem that already was there.
Going with thinner oils does not cause leaks because the oil is thinner or synthetic/mineral type.
If a gasket seals 100% as intended, it will not leak with any oil. (unless you pick oil that munches your seals but then you went the wrong route in oil selections somewhere)

Same as a myth I hear in my field of work regarding hydraulic systems, going with heavier hydraulic oil stops leaks.....if a seal is bad, it's bad, regardless of 32, 46 or 68 grade oil.
 
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