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Driveshaft comparision Carbon fiber vs alum vs steel

69 GTX

69 GTX

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I was doing some reading on the QA1 sight about driveshafts. I was wondering if anyone has seen or knows of a comparison test showing HP gains at rear wheel or in ET. I'm trying to see if it's worth upgrading from alum to carbon fiber. I will need one built so just wondering.
Thanks. for a 590 HP, auto trans, street/strip car
 
I know there was an article done a while back where they tested stock driveshaft and aluminum at the drag strip. Pretty sure it was Mopar Action, looked on the web but couldnt find it.
The difference as I remember was substantial.
 
I just installed a QA1 carbon fiber driveshaft, primarily, because of the length of my current one. At 3.5" diameter and over 59" long, I am at half the weight now with a 3.2" driveshaft. While the carbon fiber will give you less rotating mass over the steel, you won't save a whole lot weight over the aluminum.

The carbon fiber will be stronger than aluminum, and steel, and the way they are wrapping them (in house) they can make them twist like you can't do with steel, which is less shock on your tires/grip and can give you better 60-foot times. QA1 told me about one of their projects where a guy was going to steel for strength over aluminum, but then went to carbon fiber and picked up .2 on his ET... so it's possible to get better ETs, but HP is a small number.

Can they provide more HP? That's difficult to say, there's less rotating mass, but you're likely not going to see an increase you can feel... it can be up to 1% at your HP, but some of the difference could also take into effect that the oil temp, engine temp, air temp, etc., are different.
 
I went from a steel shaft in the dart to an aluminum, I did not see any change in et. It just looks prettier and is easier to take in and out....

I need one for the roadrunner, I'll probably just stick with steel.

Very good place to get a shaft. They can also answer any questions you may have.

http://dynotechengineering.com/
 
The shock absorption factor intrigues me. Should be less breakage/stress on the whole drivetrain. What do the carbon fiber units cost?

Dan
 
Dans 68 said:
The shock absorption factor intrigues me. Should be less breakage/stress on the whole drivetrain. What do the carbon fiber units cost?
Dan
Click to expand...

They can be pricey, I've seen about $1200, but have also seen more than half that for aluminum. It is very cool how QA1 can wind the shell differently to get varying levels of torsional rigidity. They wind it differently on the inside than they do for the outside, and since they're doing all of them in house, rather than buying tubes, they can control the design completely. I'm working on an article that will address the weight and how they wind them for different results and applications. I'll learn a lot from this one!
 
The critical mass of aluminum and carbon fiber is less allowing more shaft RPM.in fact steel shafts are outlawed in some Drag classes. My Dyno-Tech aluminum shaft has proven more than adequete strength for my 3350lb 9.0 car.That being said for your application save money and get a steel shaft.
Doug.
 
any weight or friction you can remove from the drive train will directly correlate to less parasitic loss, meaning more flywheel horsepower gets to the rear wheels. so yes if the testing is done under closely monitored conditions you should see an in crease in HP on a chassis dyno. the problem is probably too small a number to be accurately measured. just starting at the shop in the morning with a steel driveshaft and doing pulls, then you changes the driveshaft and do more pulls, in that time the temp of the room and the equipment warmed up so the test isnt identical and will give different results right off the batt. on horsepower tv a number of years ago they took a car and did some pulls. then they changed the engine oil, trans fluid and rear end gear oil all to royal purple to show the difference a=in how much parasitic loss you get between cheap fluids and quality synthetics, and they got something like 15-18 more hp at the wheels and even more torque. simply because they dropped the total parasitic loss, more real flywheel horsepower could make it to the wheels. remember thats RWHP not flywheel HP, theres a difference they showed similar results by eliminating every belt they could, electric fan, water pump fuel pump power steering, anything driven by the engine was parasitic and stole HP. that stuff is actual increased flywheel HP though.

.2 on your ET is great. but 2 tenths can easily also be credited to a warmer stickier track, a driver having a better day, hell even the driver taking dump, and its the 5th run of the day without topping off the tank, youve got that much less weight in the car, new plugs wires oil etc etc. its the accumulation of everything you do, including track conditions. most of us won't have a clue what we did to gain or lose .2 on 10-13 second cars. its not until you get into hardcore sponders NHRA teams like top fuelers or nitrometh where .2 separates the top 16 qualifiers. where they will know exactly what they did to get the ET they got.
 
Does anyone know the price difference between carbon fiber & alum.?
 
Dans 68 said:
The shock absorption factor intrigues me. Should be less breakage/stress on the whole drivetrain. What do the carbon fiber units cost?

Dan
Click to expand...
I can only comment as it pertains to bicycles, but switching from an aluminum frame to carbon fiber makes a huge difference in vibration absorption...granted, the driveshaft isn't contacting the road though. I'm sure the basic material advantages / disadvantages are the same on a driveline. Seems I've seen them start at around $700 for a street car type and go on up to the neighborhood of $1500 or so....
 
My aluminum shaft was $440 w/yoke 4 years ago at Dyno-Tech.
Doug
 
65RoadRacer said:
They can be pricey, I've seen about $1200, but have also seen more than half that for aluminum. It is very cool how QA1 can wind the shell differently to get varying levels of torsional rigidity. They wind it differently on the inside than they do for the outside, and since they're doing all of them in house, rather than buying tubes, they can control the design completely. I'm working on an article that will address the weight and how they wind them for different results and applications. I'll learn a lot from this one!
Click to expand...
The last company I worked for was just getting into carbon fiber windings. We built all of the different components, winders, tensioners, ovens, computer controllers, ect. for many other companies and decided to start doing windings ourselves.

The attachment of the yokes to the carbon fiber tube would be the weakest point, I would think? Having them spec at up to 2,000 hp is pretty amazing.
 
khryslerkid said:
The last company I worked for was just getting into carbon fiber windings. We built all of the different components, winders, tensioners, ovens, computer controllers, ect. for many other companies and decided to start doing windings ourselves.

The attachment of the yokes to the carbon fiber tube would be the weakest point, I would think? Having them spec at up to 2,000 hp is pretty amazing.
Click to expand...
You would think, because the bonding process needs to be spectacular. QA1 works with 3M and they won't reveal anything about their bonding process or materials, for obvious reasons. This is something fairly new to them, and they have put a lot into place to make these and want to make sure that they don't tip their hand on any of it. I don't think they've had any (or many) failures in bonding to the yokes - they worked real close with 3M to be sure that doesn't become an issue.
 
I would think flexing would cost you on reaction time...much like a rear end wrapping or motor torquing over...???.. Would definitely be easier on parts...
I would be concerned about the bonding process to the yoke myself for a mild- hi performance daily. Not sure what happened in thes picks but it is ugly!!!!:eek:

IMG_0178_zps55d4c562.jpg 005-carbon-fiber-driveshaft-broken-broomed.jpg
 
beanhead said:
I can only comment as it pertains to bicycles, but switching from an aluminum frame to carbon fiber makes a huge difference in vibration absorption...granted, the driveshaft isn't contacting the road though. I'm sure the basic material advantages / disadvantages are the same on a driveline. Seems I've seen them start at around $700 for a street car type and go on up to the neighborhood of $1500 or so....
Click to expand...
Nothing like an Aluminum frame to run over a dime and know what year it is minted.. I have an Older GT Road frame, light, but STIFF....

I got a set of lighter wheels made climbing a little easier...
 
Mike67 said:
I would think flexing would cost you on reaction time...much like a rear end wrapping or motor torquing over...???.. Would definitely be easier on parts...
I would be concerned about the bonding process to the yoke myself for a mild- hi performance daily. Not sure what happened in thes picks but it is ugly!!!!:eek:

View attachment 394651 View attachment 394652
Click to expand...
Tore like it was a big toilet paper tube!! hahaha I was thinking due to differences in stiffness there may be a slightly 'softer' launch as well...even if the flex is overcome in less than a second, it's still there? Of course, this is the space age lol they'll probably come up with a solution...
 
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