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Educate me on alternators

Sonny

It’s all fun til the rabbit gets the gun.
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I added 2 electric fans this weekend that pull 26 amps total (connected to alt stud not battery). At idle my voltage gauge now reads 12 with them on and I’m looking to upgrade the 60 amp to 100 amp. The current alternator has 2 external (blue and green) field wires and a battery stud. Is that considered externally or internally regulated?
Is this the correct type replacement for my car?
E2017435-F014-4ADA-B362-B21BC1BFA5E2.png
 
What you described is external. You should have a voltage regulator on your firewall. I would not run your fans from the stud on the alternator, I would go to the battery. Battery is stored energy and the alternator is what feeds it. Messing with that could cause charging issues.
 
What you described is external. You should have a voltage regulator on your firewall. I would not run your fans from the stud on the alternator, I would go to the battery. Battery is stored energy and the alternator is what feeds it. Messing with that could cause charging issues.
 
What you described is external. You should have a voltage regulator on your firewall. I would not run your fans from the stud on the alternator, I would go to the battery. Battery is stored energy and the alternator is what feeds it. Messing with that could cause charging issues.
Funny most on this forum told me to take it off the battery and put it on the alternator to save the bulkhead connector ....
 
Funny most on this forum told me to take it off the battery and put it on the alternator to save the bulkhead connector ....

Yes, you should hook it to the "alternator side" of the amp gauge, but this is very simplistic answer.

First, for the alternator: Your current alternator is externally regulated. One wire vs. 3 wire control how the alternator understands how much power to make. 1 vs. 3 wire alternators do not solve wiring upgrades needed if you are providing greater power to your system.

VERY BASICALLY, power goes from your battery and through the bulkhead connector to the amp gauge. The other side of your amp gauge feeds your car's power needs and also exits through a different bulkhead connector to your alternator. If your battery provides more of the power, your amp gauge will read discharging, if the alternator is powering your cars needs plus changing the battery the amp gauge will read charging.

A couple examples:
#1: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 45 amps. In this case, 45 amps are going through the bulkhead and feeding power to the car. The battery needs to do nothing so your amp gauge needle will sit dead center.
#2: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 25 amps. In this case, 25 amps are going through the bulkhead and feeding power to the car, but the other 20 amps are being supplied by the battery. The amp gauge reads discharging.
#3: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 50 amps. In this case, 50 amps are going through the bulkhead connector feeding 45 amps to your car, plus 5 amps to charge the battery. The amp gauge reads charging.

Option A: So if you connect the fans to the battery side, you will force the alternator to drive that power through your system, through your amp gauge and power your fans. You might feel good that your battery will always look like it's charging, but this is wired incorrectly. Bottom line - not a good idea.

Option B: So you connect the fans to the alternator side, outside the bulkhead connector on the firewall. While you are driving around and if the alternator can provide the power, it will provide 26 amps to the fans and the rest through the bulkhead connector to the remainder of the car's needs. That scenario is OK on the bulkhead connectors. However, at times where the alternator cannot adequately power the fans, the needed power will come from the battery. In this case you will send extra power from the battery to the amp gauge and back out to the fans. In this case, the weak link could be the bulkhead connector between the battery and the amp gauge. This is a better scenario than option A (and the more proper way to wire it), but you still should consider better (thicker) wires to handle the extra load, at least between the Battery and the connection point under the dash where other power is fed.

I know this is wordy, but I hope it helps. The bottom line is you need to understand the way current will travel in your system in all cases. My rule of thumb is if any part of the system will see power greater than 35 amps, upgrade the wiring and connectors in those areas.

Hawk
 
Is this the correct type replacement for my car?
View attachment 857144
Yes, that is the correct Tuff Stuff 100 amp externally regulated, isolated field, single grove pulley that would be correct for a ’70 non air application. If running an ammeter, all vehicle loads need to be on the alternator side of the ammeter. Alternator stud works fine for fans. Check voltage drop across the regulator sense lead (blue wire)and battery plus terminal. ’70 and up with column mounted ign switch Molex connectors are another weak spot for high resistance.
 
Yes, you should hook it to the "alternator side" of the amp gauge, but this is very simplistic answer.

First, for the alternator: Your current alternator is externally regulated. One wire vs. 3 wire control how the alternator understands how much power to make. 1 vs. 3 wire alternators do not solve wiring upgrades needed if you are providing greater power to your system.

VERY BASICALLY, power goes from your battery and through the bulkhead connector to the amp gauge. The other side of your amp gauge feeds your car's power needs and also exits through a different bulkhead connector to your alternator. If your battery provides more of the power, your amp gauge will read discharging, if the alternator is powering your cars needs plus changing the battery the amp gauge will read charging.

A couple examples:
#1: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 45 amps. In this case, 45 amps are going through the bulkhead and feeding power to the car. The battery needs to do nothing so your amp gauge needle will sit dead center.
#2: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 25 amps. In this case, 25 amps are going through the bulkhead and feeding power to the car, but the other 20 amps are being supplied by the battery. The amp gauge reads discharging.
#3: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 50 amps. In this case, 50 amps are going through the bulkhead connector feeding 45 amps to your car, plus 5 amps to charge the battery. The amp gauge reads charging.

Option A: So if you connect the fans to the battery side, you will force the alternator to drive that power through your system, through your amp gauge and power your fans. You might feel good that your battery will always look like it's charging, but this is wired incorrectly. Bottom line - not a good idea.

Option B: So you connect the fans to the alternator side, outside the bulkhead connector on the firewall. While you are driving around and if the alternator can provide the power, it will provide 26 amps to the fans and the rest through the bulkhead connector to the remainder of the car's needs. That scenario is OK on the bulkhead connectors. However, at times where the alternator cannot adequately power the fans, the needed power will come from the battery. In this case you will send extra power from the battery to the amp gauge and back out to the fans. In this case, the weak link could be the bulkhead connector between the battery and the amp gauge. This is a better scenario than option A (and the more proper way to wire it), but you still should consider better (thicker) wires to handle the extra load, at least between the Battery and the connection point under the dash where other power is fed.

I know this is wordy, but I hope it helps. The bottom line is you need to understand the way current will travel in your system in all cases. My rule of thumb is if any part of the system will see power greater than 35 amps, upgrade the wiring and connectors in those areas.

Hawk
Thanks Hawk for the detailed response!
 
Yes, you should hook it to the "alternator side" of the amp gauge, but this is very simplistic answer.

First, for the alternator: Your current alternator is externally regulated. One wire vs. 3 wire control how the alternator understands how much power to make. 1 vs. 3 wire alternators do not solve wiring upgrades needed if you are providing greater power to your system.

VERY BASICALLY, power goes from your battery and through the bulkhead connector to the amp gauge. The other side of your amp gauge feeds your car's power needs and also exits through a different bulkhead connector to your alternator. If your battery provides more of the power, your amp gauge will read discharging, if the alternator is powering your cars needs plus changing the battery the amp gauge will read charging.

A couple examples:
#1: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 45 amps. In this case, 45 amps are going through the bulkhead and feeding power to the car. The battery needs to do nothing so your amp gauge needle will sit dead center.
#2: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 25 amps. In this case, 25 amps are going through the bulkhead and feeding power to the car, but the other 20 amps are being supplied by the battery. The amp gauge reads discharging.
#3: Your car is drawing 45 amps and the alternator is feeding 50 amps. In this case, 50 amps are going through the bulkhead connector feeding 45 amps to your car, plus 5 amps to charge the battery. The amp gauge reads charging.

Option A: So if you connect the fans to the battery side, you will force the alternator to drive that power through your system, through your amp gauge and power your fans. You might feel good that your battery will always look like it's charging, but this is wired incorrectly. Bottom line - not a good idea.

Option B: So you connect the fans to the alternator side, outside the bulkhead connector on the firewall. While you are driving around and if the alternator can provide the power, it will provide 26 amps to the fans and the rest through the bulkhead connector to the remainder of the car's needs. That scenario is OK on the bulkhead connectors. However, at times where the alternator cannot adequately power the fans, the needed power will come from the battery. In this case you will send extra power from the battery to the amp gauge and back out to the fans. In this case, the weak link could be the bulkhead connector between the battery and the amp gauge. This is a better scenario than option A (and the more proper way to wire it), but you still should consider better (thicker) wires to handle the extra load, at least between the Battery and the connection point under the dash where other power is fed.

I know this is wordy, but I hope it helps. The bottom line is you need to understand the way current will travel in your system in all cases. My rule of thumb is if any part of the system will see power greater than 35 amps, upgrade the wiring and connectors in those areas.

Hawk
Thanks again. I actually have very little power needs:
Stock am radio
Lights
Msd ready to run dizzy
2 electric fans
Don’t have power windows, seats, massive stereo, electric fuel or water pump.
 
I would not run your fans from the stud on the alternator, I would go to the battery. Battery is stored energy and the alternator is what feeds it. Messing with that could cause charging issues.

WROOONG as has being explained

@Sonny If you want to check visually what @hsorman explained on his reply, check this thread I made looong time ago at dc.com

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.html

My english is not perfect now, it was maybe worst when I wrotte up that thread, but I think is still good enough to understand it.

Some corrections and new learnts has being posted along the years ( like is better to use just one fuse link instead two on the parallel lines ), but diagrams explains the loads flows and what it means or how the ammeter reads for you.
 
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WROOONG as has being explained

@Sonny If you want to check visually what @hsorman explained on his reply, check this thread I made looong time ago at dc.com

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.html

My english is not perfect now, it was maybe worst when I wrotte up that thread, but I think is still good enough to understand it.

Some corrections and new learnts has being posted along the years ( like is better to use just one fuse link instead two on the parallel lines ), but diagrams explains the loads flows and what it means or how the ammeter reads for you.
Thanks for the info!
 
WROOONG as has being explained

@Sonny If you want to check visually what @hsorman explained on his reply, check this thread I made looong time ago at dc.com

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.html

My english is not perfect now, it was maybe worst when I wrotte up that thread, but I think is still good enough to understand it.

Some corrections and new learnts has being posted along the years ( like is better to use just one fuse link instead two on the parallel lines ), but diagrams explains the loads flows and what it means or how the ammeter reads for you.
Can you explain what is wrong?

Either way it’s pulling current through the bulkhead and ammeter.
 
What is wrong is source accesories from battery. With ammeters everything must be sourced from alt side.

check the link and read with detail what 72RoadrunnerGTX and hsorman replied
 
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Either way it’s pulling current through the bulkhead and ammeter.
Not so, only with the engine not running, on a healthy system, would there be any current flow through the ammeter, as intended. Bulkhead/Packard connectors in the charging circuit should be by-passed. Make sure ammeter connections are tight and insulators intact.
 
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I disagree with the premise of connecting ANY electrical devices directly to the output stud/output connection of the alternator. The reason: there is no short circuit or over current protection to the connected load. IF the connected device or its wiring is not protected, the possibility of an under hood fire or permanent damage to the alternator is a real possibility. An inline fuse (a maxi fuse's rating equal to 10% MORE than the connected load would be appropriate including appropriately sized wire/connectors should be considered. IF the connected load exceeds 20 amps, consider using a relay to switch the current/voltage to the device/load....with fuse protection. An inline fuse device should be considered ANYTIME additional electrical devices are added to the car, regardless of where the power is sourced from, including the car's ammeter circuit.
Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON
 
I disagree with the premise of connecting ANY electrical devices directly to the output stud/output connection of the alternator. The reason: there is no short circuit or over current protection to the connected load. IF the connected device or its wiring is not protected, the possibility of an under hood fire or permanent damage to the alternator is a real possibility. An inline fuse (a maxi fuse's rating equal to 10% MORE than the connected load would be appropriate including appropriately sized wire/connectors should be considered. IF the connected load exceeds 20 amps, consider using a relay to switch the current/voltage to the device/load....with fuse protection. An inline fuse device should be considered ANYTIME additional electrical devices are added to the car, regardless of where the power is sourced from, including the car's ammeter circuit.
Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON
I’m using a relay and a 40 amp breaker between the alt and fans.
 
Sure! Using relays, but still from alt side never from batt side. Just like horns up to 69 ( laters too, but wired from acc buss bar on fuse box which is also on alt side but inside the cab )
 
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