Explain Position of Front End Alignment "Cams" Please

[Dibbons]

I read over and over the same suggestions for Mopars, how to get max caster, then set camber, then toe-in, like is explained below:

"Start with the ride height, then set the front cam all the way out and the rear cam all the way in. Then bring the rear cam out until the camber is in spec. This is the maximum caster that you can get with this car. Then set the toe."

But I don't know, and can't picture exactly what is meant when it is said "all the way in" or "all the way out". I know there are two bolts with some offset washers, but I can't get it straight in my mind what is "in" and what is "out". I know you turn the bolts, but the description of this orientation has me confused. How do you bring a rear cam "in" and then "out". "In" compared to what? "Out" compared to what? I know it must be a simple concept, but it is all Greek to me.

Thank you.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Go to this page and look at post #6.
https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/moog-upper-a-arm-offset-bushings.114711/

 

[Darter6]

Let's say IN = turn cam bolt towards the engine compartment. OUT = away from the engine compartment.

 

[Kern Dog]

In every car that I have done, EVERY one.....
I turn the REARmost cam IN to allow the bushing to be IN toward the engine.
I turn the FRONTmost cam OUT to allow the bushing to be OUT toward the fender.
This setting allows the most caster. I let the alignment guy adjust from there but it allows for the most stable steering setting until it is all properly sorted.

 

[artr8]

Think about your spindle like a control stick on an airplane.
Looking at your spindle from the passenger side, with the spindle pointing at your belly button, the camber is changed by the in-out movement of the upper control arm. Going in at the top, the cam bolt will closest to the motor. This in negative camber. Control stick on the airplane is negative if it is going away from you (your plane is nosing to the ground).
Positive would be moving the control stick toward you, cam bolt will be towards you, moving the upper control arm towards the fender.
The same thing works for caster except you will place yourself in the passenger seat. Upper ball joint moving forward is negative, moving towards you in the seat is positive.
From the seat position, to get the maximum positive caster, the cam bolt furthest from you in the seat would be towards the fender. The cam bolt closest to you would be towards the engine.

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/need-help-with-front-end-alignment.195810/

 

[MoparLeo]

https://www.forebodiesonly.com/foru...l-arm-camber-adjustment-eccentric-bolt.12193/

 

[FrnkNsteen]

Another way to look at it is this....

Watch the upper control arm (UCA) as you turn those offset washers.... It will go "In" towards the engine, or "Out" towards the tire. That is moving the top of the spindle "In" and "Out". As the top of the spindle goes in and out,... so does the top of the tire, which is Camber.

Now imagine adjusting them together, but in opposite directions, so the front of the UCA goes "Out" (towards the tire) and the back of the UCA goes "In" (Towards the tire). Since the UCA is triangle shaped, as you do this, the top of the spindle goes backwards, increasing Caster.

 

[miller]

"Start with the ride height, then set the front cam all the way out and the rear cam all the way in. Then bring the rear cam out until the camber is in spec. This is the maximum caster that you can get with this car. Then set the toe."

I started with basic settings, on my 64, the front cam fully out. Think of in and out, is from the centerline of the car. If the rear cam is all the way in, camber is way off. I used a framing square, against the wheel (from the floor), to see where camber was. Going by the chart, was looking for 0, or straight up and down. Got ball park, moving the rear cam bolt 'up', for max caster, plus 0 camber. Car drove 'okay', but wanted it checked and dialed in.
Went to an alignment shop, with numbers I wanted. Alignment guy, using computer crap machine, tells me I'm way off, on everything! Really.
Mine 'wonders' (which damn way it wants to go!), yeah... wanders.

 

[Kern Dog]

Another way to look at it is this....

Watch the upper control arm (UCA) as you turn those offset washers.... It will go "In" towards the engine, or "Out" towards the tire. That is moving the top of the spindle "In" and "Out".

I see your point but more accurately, the top of the knuckle moves either forward or rearward as well as in toward the engine or out toward the fender. The spindle is the section that the rotor or drum mounts to, the knuckle is the entire forging including the spindle.
Also, as part of the "Anti-Dive" that is engineered into these cars, as the suspension nears the full compression of it's travel, caster increases because the knuckle swings in an arc moving to the rear of the car. As it nears full extension, caster decreases because the knuckle swings in that same arc but now the upper ball joint and knuckle are tilting forward.

 

[FrnkNsteen]

I see your point but more accurately, the top of the knuckle moves either forward or rearward as well as in toward the engine or out toward the fender.

Yep, as Kerndog said,... adjusting those washers affects both Camber and Castor as they are adjusted. Castor and Camber are a balancing act as adjustments are made to the UCA bushing. My main point was trying to explain the OP question of what "In" and "Out" were referring to.