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Factory Oil Dipstick - '70 440

PurpleBeeper

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I've decided to get a new oil dipstick and actually use the motor mount bolt "loop" so I don't pull it out of the block. I've added Hedman 1-5/8" headers & I have the #1 cylinder's primary pipe going right over the top of the #3 cylinder's spark plug before turning down after exhaust port #5 (runs left-right, sorry no picture). I've been using a slightly modified "el cheapo" chrome dipstick & I think I bent it to clear Hooker headers I had on there before, if that matters.
s-l225.jpg

I've got an aftermarket oil pan on the car (Milodon "six pack" style). Even though I marked the dipstick after I put in fresh oil (7 qts. with filter), I'm still not 100% sure my oil level is correct. My thinking is that "whatever" pan you put on a 440, the oil level distance below the block's oil pan rail should be the same.... deeper pan = more oil, but the "full mark" should still be correct regardless of the pan you're using. Does that sound right?

Here're my other questions:

1. Would another "el cheapo" dipstick like shown above read my oil level correctly? OR, will I have to calibrate it myself when I do an oil change?

2. Would the factory OEM dipstick clear my headers?

3. If I had to bend a factory OEM dipstick to clear my headers, would that affect the "full" mark?

4. What is the correct Chrysler part number for a '70 440+6 Roadrunner? 3698500?

I'm sorry this is sort of rambling. I'm wondering if I'm worried over nothing and/or over-thinking this situation. I just want to be sure my oil level is at the correct height. I have an oil leak and I'm wondering if I'm over-filling the engine. THANKS!
 
I can't see how the "level" can remain the same with different configurations & geometry of the sump. Seems that to be accurate, measuring the actual level in the pan (with it off) & compare the depth of the full mark on the dipstick to the measurement of the actual level in the pan with a given number of quarts of oil to the dimension of the full mark to the block pan rail. - a rambling answer. LOL

Some bends for header clearance shouldn't make much change in the level the dipstick reads IMO.
 
I can't see how the "level" can remain the same with different configurations & geometry of the sump. Seems that to be accurate, measuring the actual level in the pan (with it off) & compare the depth of the full mark on the dipstick to the measurement of the actual level in the pan with a given number of quarts of oil to the dimension of the full mark to the block pan rail. - a rambling answer. LOL

Some bends for header clearance shouldn't make much change in the level the dipstick reads IMO.

I hear what you're saying 66.....but think about this. Let's say I put 5 qts. of oil into a "5 qt. pan" and 7 qts. of oil into a "7 qt. pan". Both of the pans are off the car. Wouldn't the distance from the level of oil to the top of the pan be the same?
 
I have a 7 quart pan and chrome dip stick and tube from Advance Auto and it reads perfect
 
I made a dipstick tube out of 3/8 steel fuel tubing. Turned tubing to fit block hole. Bent it so it would be near a valve cover bolt. Soldered a washer at the height of flat of valve cover. Cut a piece of 1/16" flat stock 2"long 5/8" wide drilled one to slip over dipstick tube and other to bolt on to valve cover. Made a pattern out of light cardboard before cutting stock. The reason to solder washer on is so you can remove 2 holed bracket if you remove valve cover. It also holds dipstick in place when checking oil.
I have a 7 quart pan, I add 7 quarts and calibrated stick them quart for filter. Enlarged pic not the best but you can see the soldered washer peeking out from behind the removable bracket.
dipstick bracket.PNG
 
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If I remember correctly the level is 1.5 inches below the block to full mark on dipstick.
I went from 4 qt "402" pan (5 total) to 6 qt hemi/six pack pan (7 total) and still reads full.
 
If I remember correctly the level is 1.5 inches below the block to full mark on dipstick.
I went from 4 qt "402" pan (5 total) to 6 qt hemi/six pack pan (7 total) and still reads full.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. It seems like the oil level, relative to the block, should be the same regardless of pan. Can anyone else confirm this?
 
I hear what you're saying 66.....but think about this. Let's say I put 5 qts. of oil into a "5 qt. pan" and 7 qts. of oil into a "7 qt. pan". Both of the pans are off the car. Wouldn't the distance from the level of oil to the top of the pan be the same?

Beeper, yes they'd be the same if the configuration of the 7 quart sump was calibrated to be at the same level.
If I remember correctly the level is 1.5 inches below the block to full mark on dipstick.
I went from 4 qt "402" pan (5 total) to 6 qt hemi/six pack pan (7 total) and still reads full.

440+6, that's because they're configured to be at the same level when filled with the "advertised" amount.
 
Beeper, yes they'd be the same if the configuration of the 7 quart sump was calibrated to be at the same level.


440+6, that's because they're configured to be at the same level when filled with the "advertised" amount.

Ok, 66... please explain more. Maybe I'm assuming something wrong, but wouldn't engineers make sure that the oil level is the same pan-to-pan vs. the block? I mean, isn't "full" when if you added any more oil it might be above the lip of the oil pan or maybe cause a horsepower drag sloshing around on the crank?

I'm thinking that if I added 5 qts. to a "5qt. pan" that I designed and the oil was 3" below the block, I'd change the name of my pan to "6 qt. pan" or something like that. Or am I missing something completely obvious???
 
Ok, 66... please explain more. Maybe I'm assuming something wrong, but wouldn't engineers make sure that the oil level is the same pan-to-pan vs. the block? I mean, isn't "full" when if you added any more oil it might be above the lip of the oil pan or maybe cause a horsepower drag sloshing around on the crank?

I'm thinking that if I added 5 qts. to a "5qt. pan" that I designed and the oil was 3" below the block, I'd change the name of my pan to "6 qt. pan" or something like that. Or am I missing something completely obvious???

Yes, if the pans are engineered to have the labeled volume at the same height, great. I guess I'm more than a little jaded by stuff that's sold as one thing & when I get it, I need to modify the part to make it fit/work. If you bought a 7 qt pan, put 7 qts in it & the level is at the full mark, great. My experience in the last couple weeks are not good, a spacer marketed as being .512" thick & arrives at .705" thick replacement the same, tire gauge with bleeder valve that didn't hold the reading at all & replacement the same, trans mount that doesn't fit without grinding. You need to check stuff.
 
Yes, if the pans are engineered to have the labeled volume at the same height, great. I guess I'm more than a little jaded by stuff that's sold as one thing & when I get it, I need to modify the part to make it fit/work. If you bought a 7 qt pan, put 7 qts in it & the level is at the full mark, great. My experience in the last couple weeks are not good, a spacer marketed as being .512" thick & arrives at .705" thick replacement the same, tire gauge with bleeder valve that didn't hold the reading at all & replacement the same, trans mount that doesn't fit without grinding. You need to check stuff.

Yep, I'm screwed. I don't have a single original part in my oiling system, so I have no reference + 66 makes a good point about parts not being what they're supposed to be. I took off a Moroso 9qt. pan...enough oil there that I could be 3 qts. low and not even know it..... to put on a "six pack" pan. I "thought" they'd all be reasonable copies of an original six pack pan....NOPE. First, the pan & pickup weren't compatible (different manufacturers) & I bought another pickup (from Milodon, like the pan I believe). It "fit", but I didn't check the pickup-to-pan clearance like I should've. I might be 2" off the floor of the pan for all I know..... and my dipstick is "aftermarket whatever all bent up and 20 yrs. old"..... so I have no idea what is the correct oil level in my motor....plus I've got an oil leak somewhere and nearly spun a bearing a month ago due to low oil.

I have got to get a handle on this.
 
Yep, I'm screwed. I don't have a single original part in my oiling system, so I have no reference + 66 makes a good point about parts not being what they're supposed to be. I took off a Moroso 9qt. pan...enough oil there that I could be 3 qts. low and not even know it..... to put on a "six pack" pan. I "thought" they'd all be reasonable copies of an original six pack pan....NOPE. First, the pan & pickup weren't compatible (different manufacturers) & I bought another pickup (from Milodon, like the pan I believe). It "fit", but I didn't check the pickup-to-pan clearance like I should've. I might be 2" off the floor of the pan for all I know..... and my dipstick is "aftermarket whatever all bent up and 20 yrs. old"..... so I have no idea what is the correct oil level in my motor....plus I've got an oil leak somewhere and nearly spun a bearing a month ago due to low oil.

I have got to get a handle on this.

The oil pickup to pan clearance can be checked with the pan installed and the pan empty. Just get a cheap cell phone inspection camera like this one
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B5KQ8DQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and look through the drain hole. Here's a photo I took inside the pan using the cheap USB camera and my cell phone:

2017-03-25-15-09-49.jpg
 
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Mechanic, that's a good idea. I can't really get a "measurement", but at least I can see what I have. I'm especially interested in my pickup-to-pan distance. I have one of those boroscope cameras, but have never tried to use it. Thanks
 
I found this over at Roseville's website. I'm not concerned about "correct". I'm making an ASSUMPTION here that the #2078 (70-71 B/E body big block) is bent differently than the #9246 (66-69) or #2840 (64-65 B-body or 65-68 C-body) due to differences in their exhaust manifold shapes or something like that. Is that right?

They all bolt to a motor mount bolt, right?

I'm sure I'm over thinking this, but could I use ANY of these? I've got a '73 block in a '70 car with headers. Will they all be accurate? Will one clear headers better than the others?

Any ideas/tips are appreciated.


70-71383-440bedipstickandtubewithshorthandleoemcorrect-9617.jpg
 
IIRC I had to bend the stock dipstick on my 70 383 Barracuda to fit with the headers & think I started with a 2078 style( maybe tried a 9246 style too) and bent it a bit with my RB motors in my '65 Coronet with 2" adjustable Hookers. Nothing fit without some bending using headers.
 
When I installed a five quart pan on my 440, I just used a dipstick and tube I had lying around. A chrome aftermarket one.

The tube fit the block and the tab lined up with the motor mount bolt. I put the dip stick in and it hit the bottom of the pan. Cut off a 1/4" and reinstalled it, no problem.

Then I added five quarts of oil. The oil was right at the full mark. Primed the engine and it was a quart low, (filling the filter). Added the sixth quart and the oil level was right at the full line.

Drain the oil, remove and replace the filter with a new one. Add four quarts and check the level. Go from there, simple math. Make your own mark on the dip stick if you have too.
 
When I installed a five quart pan on my 440, I just used a dipstick and tube I had lying around. A chrome aftermarket one.

The tube fit the block and the tab lined up with the motor mount bolt. I put the dip stick in and it hit the bottom of the pan. Cut off a 1/4" and reinstalled it, no problem.

Then I added five quarts of oil. The oil was right at the full mark. Primed the engine and it was a quart low, (filling the filter). Added the sixth quart and the oil level was right at the full line.

Drain the oil, remove and replace the filter with a new one. Add four quarts and check the level. Go from there, simple math. Make your own mark on the dip stick if you have too.

Just checking.... you used the 5 qt pan (stock 383/440?) & put in 6 quarts w/ filter & the full mark lined up?
 
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