Finally time to ditch the carb?

[Paul_G]

I am seriously considering switching to EFI. The prices have come way down. Choices are more than ever, and the newer all in one throttle body systems make install much easier.

For $1250 I can get a Holley Sniper system with an inline fuel pump and all the hardware. Other brands like FiTech are similarly priced. The Sniper can control spark, but not sure if it tunable from the handheld. Many inputs and outputs for fans, A/C, etc.

It would be so nice to finally not have summer time issues and retune, then winter issues and retune, and just the constant fiddling with the Carb.

 

[oldbee]

Ok I'll start... Arizona winter/summer retune? Sorry can't buy in to that. One setting oughta be good forever. I'm just an old carb guy with enuf other things to spend money on,my $.02

 

[Yatzee]

I am seriously considering switching to EFI. The prices have come way down. Choices are more than ever, and the newer all in one throttle body systems make install much easier.

For $1250 I can get a Holley Sniper system with an inline fuel pump and all the hardware. Other brands like FiTech are similarly priced. The Sniper can control spark, but not sure if it tunable from the handheld. Many inputs and outputs for fans, A/C, etc.

It would be so nice to finally not have summer time issues and retune, then winter issues and retune, and just the constant fiddling with the Carb.

You are right on the money with your line of thinking. Carbs are quickly going the way of the dinosaur except for OE exact restoration gurus. There is no re-tuning once they are dialed in, you can run PWM fuel pumps, A/C idle kick-up and so much more. I run two FiTech's on two completely different makes of cars, both classics, and would never go back. Nice part is that people never notice their there once the air cleaner housing is installed.

 

[RJRENTON]

I agree with oldbee....I also dubscribe to the philosophy of "fancy gizmo's don't work" or if they do for how long and wnen they don't, where do you get parts? Just an opinion of course.
Bob Renton

 

[69L48Z27]

Can't go wrong with FI IMO.

I did not watch this yet, just posted and hour or so ago.

 

[Paul_G]

The carb always makes a little more power than FI. That is pretty normal. In the above video it was 10 HP. Not sure why that is? Both devices meter air and fuel to the engine. FI should be able to enrich the mixture as power demand rises just as a carb would, shouldnt it?

If your a racer 10 HP loss is going the wrong way. If it is a street car, weekend cruiser 10 HP really doesnt matter than much. The benefits of FI outweigh the small power loss I think. Easy starts, consistant smooth drivability. Better MPG. And no more fiddling with a finicky carb.

 

[Scatpack]

I drive my super bee April-November up here in WI, Holley 850 mechanical secondaries, 80 degrees to 30 degrees, 90% humidity to 45% humidity, never had any problems, maybe it’s your carburetor?Like oldbee said, I’m a carburetor guy, I would never put efi on old school muscle. That’s why they made new challengers so you don’t have to make a old muscle into pro-touring! Maybe try a different carburetor first? Everybody has their own thoughts but I like old school muscle with bias ply tires, stock suspension and of course mechanical fuel pump with carburetor.

 

[JimKueneman]

Ok I'll start... Arizona winter/summer retune? Sorry can't buy in to that. One setting oughta be good forever. I'm just an old carb guy with enuf other things to spend money on,my $.02

Ok, no altitude retune

 

[Paul_G]

Ok I'll start... Arizona winter/summer retune? Sorry can't buy in to that. One setting oughta be good forever. I'm just an old carb guy with enuf other things to spend money on,my $.02

Yep. Hot dry summer air from 105 to 115 degrees, A/C running, engine running at max temps in 200 to 210 range. To mild winter air in the 50 to 70 degree range, engine running cool at 180 degrees. Carb doesnt like to run smooth with those variances unless mixture adjusted and idle speed reset, etc.

I remember an old episode of Goldberg's Bull Run when the dodge charger had to do a stunt running through a parking garage, (in Vegas maybe?), and stalled out. They claimed the altitude and temperature change caused the carb problem. I can relate to that.

 

[Yatzee]

I am seriously considering switching to EFI. The prices have come way down. Choices are more than ever, and the newer all in one throttle body systems make install much easier.

For $1250 I can get a Holley Sniper system with an inline fuel pump and all the hardware. Other brands like FiTech are similarly priced. The Sniper can control spark, but not sure if it tunable from the handheld. Many inputs and outputs for fans, A/C, etc.

It would be so nice to finally not have summer time issues and retune, then winter issues and retune, and just the constant fiddling with the Carb.

Gathering, by some later posts here, it's obvious to me that a lot of posters know nothing about TBI. I assume that's why their so negative to the units. A carb will never outdo a TBI because they are dynamic in fuel delivery not by CFM. Yes they do accelerate better than a carb and still maintain A/F ratios across the entire rpm band. FiTech's parts are same as GM, Bosch O2's and most of the TBI sensors and parts can be bought at your local parts store. FiTech will give you the replacement part numbers which are either Bosch or Delphi. On the upside, no choke plates, floats, metering jets, fuel evaporation from the bowls, no unpredictable A/F ratios, same linkage as almost all Holley carbs, ignition timing control, electric fan and fuel pump control, electronic rpm kick-up for cold starts and A/C,vacuum ports galore and their built for reliabilty. Install 'em, tune 'em forget 'em.

 

[threewood]

I suppose I am a carb guy as well. I'm in AZ and besides adjusting for A/F delivery i have not had any running issues that was not related to two crappy mechanical pumps. I also removed my choke and it has no issues starting at night (50's) cold with a quarter pump of the accelerator pedal. I have to rev it a few times before it will idle but it is a minor inconvienience. I would like to see how much of an improvement in mileage I would see with FI.

With that said, I think a port injection setup for a BBM would be bad ***.

 

[Scatpack]

Gathering, by some later posts here, it's obvious to me that a lot of posters know nothing about TBI. I assume that's why their so negative to the units. A carb will never outdo a TBI because they are dynamic in fuel delivery not by CFM. Yes they do accelerate better than a carb and still maintain A/F ratios across the entire rpm band. FiTech's parts are same as GM, Bosch O2's and most of the TBI sensors and parts can be bought at your local parts store. FiTech will give you the replacement part numbers which are either Bosch or Delphi. On the upside, no choke plates, floats, metering jets, fuel evaporation from the bowls, no unpredictable A/F ratios, same linkage as almost all Holley carbs, ignition timing control, electric fan and fuel pump control, electronic rpm kick-up for cold starts and A/C,vacuum ports galore and their built for reliabilty. Install 'em, tune 'em forget 'em.

I think it’s prefrence on what to run. I had a 1978 dodge truck with a holley 2D projection kit on it, the first thing I did was toss that and put a carburetor back on. That’s the while point of having an old truck or car, you actually have to drive it and maintain it. Yeah it may run better with tbi or efi but what’s the point of having an old car then? Buy a new “muscle” car if you want the reliability, good gas mileage and handling.

 

[71RRHI]

I have two Fitech systems, one on a 512 inch stroker. With big cam, doesn't make 4 inches of vacume at idle, and a pretty much stock 383. Love both of them. As the box say's never buy a carb again

 

[71RRHI]

I have two Fitech systems, one on a 512 inch stroker. With big cam, doesn't make 4 inches of vacume at idle, and a pretty much stock 383. Love both of them. As the box say's never buy a carb again

 

[451Mopar]

Here is a few reasons I went with EFI on my street car(s):
#1 - Quality of pump gas. The pump gas used now vaporizes much easier often causing vapor lock in low pressure fuel systems. This is a bigger issue at higher altitudes. Having the fuel pressurized from an in-tank pump to a higher pressure, and circulating with a by-pass regulator eliminates vapor lock. The caveat is the fuel pump always has to supply constant pressure, so a good pickup/fuel tank baffle is needed to make sure the pump always has fuel to pump. With EFI, a drop in fuel pump pressure can make the engine stumble or stall.
#2 - Easier start-up in any weather conditions. This is more an issue if using a mechanical fuel pump and the carb bowls are dried out, having to crank the engine to get fuel to the carb. Also, EFI does not have the hot heat soak problem.
#3 - The ability to program/map the ignition timing. Much easier to adjust the ignition curves (map) of RPM and MAP readings.
#4 - Making adjustments to the fuel map are quick, fairly easy, don't make a mess, and don't need to buy additional parts. With the self-learning systems, they can help dial in the fuel map, but they may still need some additional tuning.
#5 - Most if not all the newer self-learning EFI systems come with a wide-band O2 sensor, and data logging.

 

[not so famous bob]

Gathering, by some later posts here, it's obvious to me that a lot of posters know nothing about TBI. I assume that's why their so negative to the units. A carb will never outdo a TBI because they are dynamic in fuel delivery not by CFM. Yes they do accelerate better than a carb and still maintain A/F ratios across the entire rpm band. FiTech's parts are same as GM, Bosch O2's and most of the TBI sensors and parts can be bought at your local parts store. FiTech will give you the replacement part numbers which are either Bosch or Delphi. On the upside, no choke plates, floats, metering jets, fuel evaporation from the bowls, no unpredictable A/F ratios, same linkage as almost all Holley carbs, ignition timing control, electric fan and fuel pump control, electronic rpm kick-up for cold starts and A/C,vacuum ports galore and their built for reliabilty. Install 'em, tune 'em forget 'em.

AGREE W/ THIS. A lot of B.S. on here and other places , from people who know nothing about it !! I`m not an expert on it , but I like it on my approx. 700 plus H.P. , 505" wedge ! If both systems are tuned perfect, there probly won`t be 2 h.p. diff., but the f.i. will be closer to right all the at thru the rpm range .

 

[Paul_G]

AGREE W/ THIS. A lot of B.S. on here and other places , from people who know nothing about it !! I`m not an expert on it , but I like it on my approx. 700 plus H.P. , 505" wedge ! If both systems are tuned perfect, there probly won`t be 2 h.p. diff., but the f.i. will be closer to right all the at thru the rpm range .

True. I have an a/f gauge installed and use it to dial in the carb. Trying to get a clean smooth idle, lean cruise, richer light acceleration, and full throttle safely rich is almost impossible. Trial and error right? A mess is what I end up with. 2 of those goals are atainable, but all of them not so much with a carb.

 

[Don Frelier]

Fuel injection = motor longevity.
This is why new cars can run much longer than old carbeurated cars.
Go down the highway at 90 or 100 with a carb, then let off the accelerator.
What happens with a carb?
*With fuel injection the injectors shut off.
Cold start with a choke and you pump the gas 1 or 2 times too many.
What happens with a carb?
*With fuel injection you just turn the key
I have both and I ran a carb for years and liked it but when I switched to fuel injection I had better performance in summer weather.
I get almost 2 miles/gallon better economy on a trip. I can adjust the AFR while I'm driving.
It's pretty cool, but yes I agree that there is a risk of failure with a fuel pump and carb I could fix it on the side of the road.

 

[oldbee]

I suppose I am a carb guy as well. I'm in AZ and besides adjusting for A/F delivery i have not had any running issues that was not related to two crappy mechanical pumps. I also removed my choke and it has no issues starting at night (50's) cold with a quarter pump of the accelerator pedal. I have to rev it a few times before it will idle but it is a minor inconvienience. I would like to see how much of an improvement in mileage I would see with FI.

With that said, I think a port injection setup for a BBM would be bad ***.

Yup, took the new better-half to Ca. in Aug.70 from Ohio. Took her back in Dec.70(winter in Ohio) because my Uncle wanted me to leave the country for awhile; no carb problem at all.

 

[Scatpack]

Sounds like the people who went with efi/tbi don’t know how to tune a carb, better yet, drive a car with a carb..... (it a joke guys) 30,000 miles with the bee with Holley DP mechanical secondaries with no choke in three years, from -10 degrees to 90 degrees, up and down in valleys and hills, no problem????