Freaking Oil Prices / Oil to Electric Conversion

multimopes

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Pain at the pump is one thing but just as the cost of everything continues to rise, heating oil is getting to be a joke that ain't funny. In my case, I have a tankless heater in my furnace for domestic hot water. That means I have to keep it on all year to be able to take a shower & such. It's to the point now that $5.75 a gallon is a out of hand & only going to get worse. I have decided to purchase & install an electric hot water heater so I can shut off the furnace half of the year. I spoke with a few guys about their particular setups & so far I think a 50 gallon unit with a warranty of about 10 years will do me. As with almost everything today, I assume it will be made in or from materials from the Chineseum. I am just asking for recommendations as what to look for and who makes the more reliable units these days. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I would prefer a unit that is free & self installing but the waiting list is just absurd! :BangHead:
 

Geetex

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I would prefer a unit that is free & self installing but the waiting list is just absurd! :BangHead:
That's funny ^^^^

Bradford White claims that their units are made in the US. I haven't seen anything about where they source raw materials. I have a few friends that are long-time plumbers they say that they're good units, plus most of the reviews that I've seen are positive. I'm not a plumber nor an electrician, I don't even play one on TV, so I can't say what to look for in an electric water heater. So, maybe see if they have something that will suit your needs. I only know this stuff because my water heater is about done so I've been checking into a replacement.
 

Dave6T4

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I live in southern Ontario where we get winter from November to March. My 4-car 1250 sq. ft. attached garage has in-floor hot water heating. We used to have two 50 gallon electric hot water heaters that were monthly rentals. One looked after domestic hot water, while the other one heated the garage. When the heaters reached the age of 12 years or so, I was concerned that they could leak and ruin our finished basement. I asked the rental company to replace them with new, but was refused. At this point, I began to look for an alternative.
I eventually decided to go with a natural gas-fired on-demand boiler system. It uses a stainless steel tank with a coil inside it. Water is heated by the on-demand gas heater and circulated through the coil before being sent to the garage in-floor loops. This coil in the tank also heats the water contained in the tank for domestic use.
This system cost about $10,000.00 installed, but only uses resources when called for, whereas the hot water tanks were being electrically heated 24/7. I figure with savings in electricity, and no rental fees on the hot water tanks, this system pays for itself in under 10 years. I find the garage heat is also more consistent now.
 

Triplegreen500

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I put a new 50 gal in my basement in...2012? When the one from 1987 died (actually it still worked, it just rusted out). I also put 50s in my rental properties. 50 is plenty for normal family use / showers without cold water / etc. Just use common sense and don't run the dishwasher or washing machine when someone's in the shower (unless they pissed you off about something and you want revenge lol). I put my new one on a 2' tall platform so I could use the flush valve into a utility sink in my basement, and I flush it once a year to remove sediment and fight rust. Elements can be replaced easily enough - as long as it holds water, you can keep 'er running for decades. Just find a spot to place it; you'll need electric (I recommend its own breaker); you'll need an "in" cold water source, and the "out" hot water pipe needs to hook to your existing hot water pipes. I'd tee in near your existing heater, and use 90 degree ball valves (stay away from the hose bib type, they corrode and lock up but I've never had a ball valve fail) as "switches" for which heat source you're using based on season/time. I also fit my heater connections (not the ball valves; they need to be SOLIDLY locked to the pipes) with "GatorBite" connections. Super-tight when connected but tool-removable instead of cut-out-and-re-solder. They also make 12" and 18" braided flex hoses with gatorbite fittings on them, so you only have to get the hard pipes "close", and can jumper the flex pipes to the actual unit with a little leeway for placement. But definitely solder in the ball valves so they don't flex under use.

I've also heard good things about tankless water heaters ("instant"), the upside being you aren't eating power to keep a pile of water warm for when you need it; the downside being you need one at every hot water usage point (each bathroom gets one; the laundry gets one; the kitchen gets one; etc).
 

multimopes

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Thank you all for your responses. I can now proceed to search for what is within my proximity & budget. Mentioning GatorBites, brought up my self designed & custom built by me water filtration system. I live in a heavily wooded area in the country with no city water or sewer systems. Therefore, I have a well & septic. The water is pretty hard & has some iron in it so I regularly flush my tankless heaters coil with white vinegar. However, occasionally the sink aerators have to be cleaned or replaced. Not a big deal, but after taking apart my dishwasher 3 times or more to clean the solenoid valve screen, I decided to make my own filter system. I looked at water softeners but you can't use one that discharges into a septic field so that would require a new pit or field and lugging bags of salt down stairs to store & add regularly. No-go! Soooooo, I made me a system that is working quite well. It uses a reverse flush main filter & a replaceable standard cartridge filters. I designed it to run off either filter or bypass it entirely. You can back flush either filter separately as well. I use the main reverse flush pre filter at the top as a pre-filter as it is 74 microns. Then it goes through the final standard household filter which is usually 5 micron & sometime I use a 1 micron. I put pressure gauges on the inlet & outlet to monitor any pressure drop. The point to this is I suck at sweating pipe. I hadn't done any soldering for some 25 years & coming off the main overhead the pipes are sweat joints. I did 6 or 7 joints and half of them leaked on the other side of a coupling I just finished. Screw that, I had my brother sweat the main take offs & the bypass valve. I then purchased a boatload of "SharkBites" from the HomeDepot; (Danny Lipford would be happy). I think that GatorBites are Lowes brand. (Same Thing)! Anyway, You can see below my finished product. I borrowed a Hilty gun to set the 2x4's into the concrete walls behind the 3/4" plywood it mounts to. I must have at least $300 dollars worth of SharkBites alone. I am now a big fan of these quick coupler designs but I don't want to use them on hot water pipes. The system has been working well for me for some 5 years now.

HPIM0035.JPG
 
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yella71

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I just moved to south florida.....illl never buy another tank of heating oil again ever. Fuk NJ
 

Triplegreen500

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...because if you got the memo, you should save it and burn it when it gets cold out. You'll get just about as much heat out of it, as you will out of wind and solar!
 

Hey-O

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Roger63

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I live in southern Ontario where we get winter from November to March. My 4-car 1250 sq. ft. attached garage has in-floor hot water heating. We used to have two 50 gallon electric hot water heaters that were monthly rentals. One looked after domestic hot water, while the other one heated the garage. When the heaters reached the age of 12 years or so, I was concerned that they could leak and ruin our finished basement. I asked the rental company to replace them with new, but was refused. At this point, I began to look for an alternative.
I eventually decided to go with a natural gas-fired on-demand boiler system. It uses a stainless steel tank with a coil inside it. Water is heated by the on-demand gas heater and circulated through the coil before being sent to the garage in-floor loops. This coil in the tank also heats the water contained in the tank for domestic use.
This system cost about $10,000.00 installed, but only uses resources when called for, whereas the hot water tanks were being electrically heated 24/7. I figure with savings in electricity, and no rental fees on the hot water tanks, this system pays for itself in under 10 years. I find the garage heat is also more consistent now.
I must be a little daft, so pardon the response but, rental hot water tanks? I've never heard of such a thing.
 

slepr1

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Check out an electric heat pump water heater. Costs a bit more but will eventually pay for itself in electricity savings. And rebates may be available to even out the price some. Rheem makes 40,60,80 gallon tanks and are available at Home Depot. Lots of video reviews on YouTube about them.
 

mrhemi

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Unfortunately there is no easy one size fits all answer to your dilemma. You will get many differing opinions. Access the forum link below. It may give you some insight, as it is inhabited by professionals as well as the unwashed seeking information. Most contributors seem to be in the north east so should be familiar with your area.

://forum.heatinghelp.com/categories
 

joe smith

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I have filters on my well also, but there is NO way they filter out the rust without a softening system..
As to the Shark bites, I have used them and like them, but how many old O rings have you replaced in your life, which is the Sharkbite system?
 

mrhemi

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I must be a little daft, so pardon the response but, rental hot water tanks? I've never heard of such a thing.
They are a bit of a ponzi scheme unleashed on the rate payers of Ontario. Very difficult and expensive to get out of the contract when the time comes. If there is one in a property you are purchasing, best make it a condition of sale that it is cancelled and removed at the seller's expense.
 
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Demonic

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Do you know what the difference between a 9yr and 12 yr water heater is? A second anode rod. Easily changed with a helper to hold back to keep the water heater stationary.
 

Budnicks

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I converted everything off of the expensive Propane
we have here
we don't & can't use fuel oil,
not that I'd ever even want to
we don't/can't get natural gas (it's cheap) up here either,
so it's either electric or propane, not a huge fan of electric stove/dbl oven
but it's way cheaper & about the same cooking time, a lot cleaner too
also far less heat in the kitchen when cooking too (or anytime)...

The last thing left in my house is the propane Hot Water heater,
(I now only have a 120cuft propane tank now, $20 every 2 months rental,
goes with the service it gets filled once a year, about 100cuft,
I was using 300cuft tank, used like 250+cuft average a month before
)
& when it's time is up, it will be replaced with tankless electric unit/s too
probably 2 units, 1 on either end of the house, so it doesn't take
so long to get hot water to the sink or to the showers, more efficient...

I save probably $300 a month on not buying Propane
in the winter months
& probably another $100 on electricity a month
let alone the cost to run that old swamp cooler,
probably another $75 a month in summer
for a far more efficient electric HVAC system
my new HVAC unit is far more efficient than the old 1989
propane over electric heating unit was
&
I have AC now to boot...
(how people in Calif don't/didn't have it I don't know)
No longer 'Not a miserable swamp cooler', adding humidity
We have Bryant (made in USA) a 4 Ton unit for a 1600 sqft house, split system
best $$$ I ever spent on this house...
We average $100-$125 a month for an electric bill now,
(PG&E isn't cheap here either)
a lil' more in winter, maybe $150, my dad likes it 70*+
I like it like 67*-68* & set at 77* in the mid-summer, when it's like 90*-100*+
he'd have it 80*+ in the house if he could
otherwise lately, I just turn it on to 77* when I'm cooking
use a couple ceiling fans to keep the air circulating & moving
so the house doesn't heat up so much, seems to work pretty good now...

I'll bet I'm saving $4,000+ a year on what I was org. paying...

good luck & I hope you got it all sorted out

Smiley - a none political post.png
 

Takoctopus

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I put a new 50 gal in my basement in...2012? When the one from 1987 died (actually it still worked, it just rusted out). I also put 50s in my rental properties. 50 is plenty for normal family use / showers without cold water / etc. Just use common sense and don't run the dishwasher or washing machine when someone's in the shower (unless they pissed you off about something and you want revenge lol). I put my new one on a 2' tall platform so I could use the flush valve into a utility sink in my basement, and I flush it once a year to remove sediment and fight rust. Elements can be replaced easily enough - as long as it holds water, you can keep 'er running for decades. Just find a spot to place it; you'll need electric (I recommend its own breaker); you'll need an "in" cold water source, and the "out" hot water pipe needs to hook to your existing hot water pipes. I'd tee in near your existing heater, and use 90 degree ball valves (stay away from the hose bib type, they corrode and lock up but I've never had a ball valve fail) as "switches" for which heat source you're using based on season/time. I also fit my heater connections (not the ball valves; they need to be SOLIDLY locked to the pipes) with "GatorBite" connections. Super-tight when connected but tool-removable instead of cut-out-and-re-solder. They also make 12" and 18" braided flex hoses with gatorbite fittings on them, so you only have to get the hard pipes "close", and can jumper the flex pipes to the actual unit with a little leeway for placement. But definitely solder in the ball valves so they don't flex under use.

I've also heard good things about tankless water heaters ("instant"), the upside being you aren't eating power to keep a pile of water warm for when you need it; the downside being you need one at every hot water usage point (each bathroom gets one; the laundry gets one; the kitchen gets one; etc).
I think you have been misinformed about tankless water heaters. I have two the service a four unit apartment building and that covers everything. No need to have one at each bathroom/kitchen. Hot water hasn’t been a problem since I had them install. Basically trouble free, just clean them once a year. Also I lived in Japan and every house has a tankless water heater, one for each house, first world Asian countries have been using them for 40 plus years. Really is nice instant hot water when you want it.
 

multimopes

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I have filters on my well also, but there is NO way they filter out the rust without a softening system..
As to the Shark bites, I have used them and like them, but how many old O rings have you replaced in your life, which is the Sharkbite system?
I have never had one o ring leak and the picture above was right after I installed the system. I agree about the rust, however I haven't had to change a faucet aerator since and no problems at all with the dishwasher solenoid valve either. We still get rust in the toilet tanks, just not as much which is normal for systems without a water softener in my area. The stuff that is being filtered is probably from my well pump disintegrating bit by bit or God knows what else. Below is a picture from a year or two later and you can see the filters turning orange/brown. They are worse now, you can scarcely see through the plastic housing on the final filter and I have to scrub it when changing the filter. It is far from perfect but has helped out quite a bit. I try to flush my kidneys on a regular basis with beer, lol.

HPIM1936.JPG

I want to thank everyone for you input & suggestions. I am familiar with most of those brands mentioned. I have some searching to do now. I also forgot to mention that I put flushing valves on the input & output of my furnaces tankless heater 30 years ago. I use a small submersible coil pump about once a year with white vinegar. It's weird that most or all plumbing supply stores around here NEVER stock these little pumps. They are the size of your fist. It stymies me that they have no room on the shelf but have room for dozens of heaters in all sizes. I ended up ordering from Grainger.
Note : As I get older I can't seem to spell worth a damn anymore. I wish that Joey had included a spell checker with this new upgrade!
:rolleyes:
 
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joe smith

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My concern about the sharkbyte type of connectors would be about the LONG term ability to last.. hence my comparison with OLD o rings........
As I said I have used them my self and they work great, at least for now.. I try to sweat any fitting I can, as I know these will last.......
 

Hey-O

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They've been around for about 15 years now. They're backed by a 25-year warranty against any manufacturer's defect as long as the item has been installed according to installation instructions and compliant with local code. I've used them, but I've sweated joints that I know are still together after 40 years.
 
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