Free Online "Brand X" Factory Service Manuals???

[PurpleBeeper]

I'm working on my father-in-law's "Brand X" car ('64 Chevy II Nova SS 283 2bbl.). It has no spark & I'm baffled. The car is 99% stock & is still running the original points ignition.

Does anyone know a website I can find a '64 Chevy service manual? (or at least an ignition diagnostic method). THANK YOU!

 

[GetX'd]

Everything is on google

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Everything is on google

Yeah, I looked for about a half hour last night. All I found was a bunch of people selling the manuals & one site that wanted me to download an "app" which made me nervous (+ it seemed to be mainly home appliance manuals).

 

[NoCar2023]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a6382/4338376/

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Thank you gentlemen, but I really need the factory '64 Nova SS service manual & here's why. The owner of this car is VERY, VERY stubborn. He also has become extremely forgetful. The car sat for 25 yrs., I got it running for him Christmas 2016. He installed a set of points & now the car hasn't run since January 2017. Points are the likely problem, right? Well, he's is not believing it & would rather his car sit than admit something HE did might be the problem (has sat another whole year now). I have to let HIM come to the conclusion about what's wrong & the only way I can think of (without having a huge fight) is to follow the Chevy ignition diagnostic since he won't let me touch the points (his car). The engine does not even sputter...not a sound other than cranking.

I haven't owned a Chevy or run points in over 25 yrs. Here is what he has allowed me to do:
- New cap
- New rotor
- Visually "peek" at the points (he has not allowed me to use a feeler gauge or check anything else related to the points) - To my eye, they appear to be at least close to the correct .016"-.018" gap.
- Install a new points condenser
- Checked with key on the + side of coil & it has about 10V (internet said 9V at coil +) with key on.
- Checked resistance on distributor/coil main plug wire with an unreliable meter (it does show continuity)
- Checked the wire between neg. of coil & points and it is not shorted to ground (I should have checked continuity, but didn't think of that yesterday)
- Grounding extra spark plug in #1 & #3 plug wire (no spark)
- The carb is definitely getting fuel (year old fuel...but fuel)

Chevy appears to have stopped using ballast resistors in '63, so '64+ is supposed to have a "resistance wire" somewhere down by the starter, which I know nothing about. All I can think of to do is to swap out to a known good ignition coil (from my Roadrunner), check for pulsing voltage at negative side of coil during cranking (to check points), check + side of coil for voltage while cranking....that's all I have.

In order for HIM to let me go near the points, I would have to let him come to that conclusion from a Chevy diagnostic procedure. He has limited mechanical ability & is VERY stubborn as mentioned. I would totally just say "then fix it yourself dude", but he is my wife's father.

ANY & ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED!

 

[dadsbee]

You should have known better... marrying into a Chebby family!!! LOL, at least with my f-in-law he had a '76 Volare and he's still a PITA.

 

[NoCar2023]

I will try to find one. I may have a old GM ignition manual.
The resister wire comes from the ignition switch, it drops voltage to coil when engine is running. (common for these to burn up)
The wire going the the S term at the starter sends battery voltage to the coil when cranking.
Don't tell anyone......I was a GM tech for many years.
Headed out to Ventura to see the folks right now, so it will be later.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I will try to find one. I may have a old GM ignition manual.
The resister wire comes from the ignition switch, it drops voltage to coil when engine is running. (common for these to burn up)
The wire going the the S term at the starter sends battery voltage to the coil when cranking.
Don't tell anyone......I was a GM tech for many years.
Headed out to Ventura to see the folks right now, so it will be later.

You rock & I appreciate your help!!! So far, I've only checked the voltage to the + side of the coil with the key on (not cranking or running) and I'm getting 10V. I still haven't checked to see if he has voltage while cranking???? (thinking of the Mopar blue/brown wire at ballast resistor issue we often have)

 

[69L48Z27]

You should have 12VDC cranking and then 7-9VDC with the key in run position. I would try another coil, you can use a generic test procedure to check the coil. Everything sounds right. System is really no different than the Mopar points system, just no ballast.

 

[Danomt]

This system is simple. should have voltage to the plus side of the coil. Put test light on the neg side and when the points are open test light should be light. when points close the circuit is grounded and the light should go out. cranking engine should have light flashing. Coil should spark every time the points open.. It is that simple.....

 

[NoCar2023]

Sorry, I could not find the old distributor book. only found these. maybe its in the attic.
I will be in the attic looking for parts tomorrow.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

You should have 12VDC cranking and then 7-9VDC with the key in run position. I would try another coil, you can use a generic test procedure to check the coil. Everything sounds right. System is really no different than the Mopar points system, just no ballast.

Thanks! I was getting about 10V on the + side of the coil with the key in "ON" position, but I haven't tried to check either the + or - side of coil while cranking yet.
a) If the - side of coil doesn't "pulse" voltage while cranking, does that mean the problem is the coil, points, or could be either?
b) If coil - side DOES "pulse" voltage while cranking, does that mean the problem has to be cap/rotor/coil-dist wire?

Also, please tell me about a "basic coil test". On a Mopar electronic ignition, I remember MANY years ago putting a screw driver into end of coil-dist wire & putting the screwdriver close to an intake bolt. I turned the key on & grounded the exposed plug from the ignition (of the double distributor plug) & if the coil was good, a spark would jump from the screwdriver.

I pulled the MSD Blaster 2 coil & the coil-dist wire off my Roadrunner to try since they are for sure good parts.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

This system is simple. should have voltage to the plus side of the coil. Put test light on the neg side and when the points are open test light should be light. when points close the circuit is grounded and the light should go out. cranking engine should have light flashing. Coil should spark every time the points open.. It is that simple.....

Thanks danomt and that makes complete sense, but can you walk me through this diagnosis? We've been testing spark by grounding an extra spark plug while cranking.

a) If coil's "-" side pulses voltage while cranking BUT still no spark, what are the possible problems? I've already put in a new cap & rotor and the coil-distributor "plug wire" does show continuity

b) If coil's "-" does not pulse voltage while cranking & I have no spark, what are the possible problems? Would it just be the points themselves or the wire going to the points from "-" side of the coil? Any other possibilities? So far, I've changed out the points condenser and made sure that points/"-" wire doesn't go to ground, but have not checked continuity on that wire.

Since the car ran, he changed the points & now the car doesn't run..... I think he's either got a bad set of points or the gap is too wide. So far, he's yelled at me every time I mentioned the points, so I have to convince him FOR SURE. Also, he has a HUGE pile of points that his brother gave him 30 yrs. ago (seriously 20+ sets of very old points). If the first set of points he tries are bad, I'm afraid they may all be bad, so I would buy a new set (maybe that's why his brother got them for free 30 yrs. ago..they're bad?) He won't agree I'm sure & think buying a new set of points is a waste of money.

 

[Photon440]

Well if he won't let you measure the points, will he at least let you try opening them when they're in the closed position to see if they spark, and if the coil sparks at the same time? Tell him you're not checking the points, you're checking the coil.

 

[Danomt]

a) If coil's "-" side pulses voltage while cranking BUT still no spark, what are the possible problems? I've already put in a new cap & rotor and the coil-distributor "plug wire" does show continuity

b) If coil's "-" does not pulse voltage while cranking & I have no spark, what are the possible problems? Would it just be the points themselves or the wire going to the points from "-" side of the coil? Any other possibilities? So far, I've changed out the points condenser and made sure that points/"-" wire doesn't go to ground, but have not checked continuity on that wire.

The test light checks the points. points closed - no light points open - light
every time you open the points the coil wire should spark. I just hold the coil wire close to a ground, or in your case have your father in law just hold it, It will give him reason to yell.!! I suspect a bad coil if you have a pulse.

 

[69L48Z27]

Test a coil:

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Thank you gentlemen!
a. Photon, you sneaky bastard....GREAT IDEA!
b. Danomt, I like your idea even better....light up that grumpy Chevy guy with a coil shock!
c. 69L, thank you SO much for that video. That is extremely helpful & makes total sense.

Ok, thinking out loud here..... I will test the coil using 69L's technique. If coil is GOOD, then I think my only possibilities are:
1. wire between "-" of coil & points is broken
2. points themselves aren't grounded properly to the distributor/block
3. points are bad

Follow up question....How do you know if points are bad? I mean, I remember point files, so I'm thinking they just need to have clean contacts & be gapped correctly and they don't really go "bad" until there's nothing left to file (sorta)...does that sound right?

So, if the points are in one piece, not crazy corroded, gapped correctly & have a good ground to the distributor/block then they should be OK....sound right?

THANK YOU GUYS!

 

[Danomt]

Back to my instructions, with test light on the neg side of coil, if the light goes out with points close and comes on when they are open, your test of the points is done. they are good. If light does not go out when points are closed the are not making contact back to cleaning or filing, like in the old days.....

 

[danf_fl]

Just asking:
Is he positive that her connected all wires when he replaced the points?
Ask him to double check if there is no spark. He may find that he overlooked something....

 

[Don selleck]

back in the 80's a friend of mine installed a set new points no spark he messed with it for a day he called me and after poking around for awhile i noticed he connected the wire to the points behind the insulator on the wire connector bracket, which resulted in a direct ground no spark removed wire to other side and fired right up. might not be the problem but its an easy thing to check i've also seen bad condensors on new sets before.