• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Hawk-Rod: The "Tune-Up"

HawkRod

Formerly hsorman
Staff member
FBBO Gold Member
Local time
6:28 AM
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
6,611
Reaction score
13,945
Location
Lansdale, PA
Some of you that have been around awhile know this story. For others, here is the short version.

In January of 2014, I started a restoration of my 70 Road Runner with the intent to drive it across country. Details here in case you are interested:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/hawk-rod-the-restoration.65096/

Well, I got it done it time (just barely!) and my buddy Barry and I then drove across country - we posted photos of our progress as we did so. Details here in case you are interested:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/hawks-cross-country-70-road-runner-trip.97639/

This restoration and trip is still one of the top 10 highlights of my life. Lots of great member support from FBBO too that made it even more fun. I can without question state that without FBBO the trip would never have happened. So now it is time for another trip! Around September 2020 we plan to do it again, this time both ways over a two month period!

This thread is about some of the items to "Tune Up" the 'ol girl and get her ready for the trip. She still runs and drives great but here is an initial list of things I want to do before we leave:
  • Install a new engine to protect the original, unrestored 383.
  • Replace my transmission with an appropriate overdrive
  • Fix a nagging windshield leak
  • Verify/ improve my fuel tank vent to avoid spillovers with a full tank
  • Improve the fit of the side glass for a quieter ride
  • Improve the door cards and fix an irritating rattle in the passenger door
Below are a couple of pictures as she now sits.

Here comes another adventure!

Hawk

B00_58.JPG

20171028_165609.jpg
 
Part 1: The Engine

I had always planned to build a low deck 400 based stroker engine. As a matter of fact, I had a 400 engine ready to start building. However, then Machmeter1 came along and offered his driveline for sale. The engine had most of the components built as I would have, so I bought it. Both Machmeter1 and the original builder, Qkcuda, are great guys and I have been discussing the engine with both of them. They have been very helpful - thanks! (Both are mostly FABO guys, but frequent FBBO a bit as well.)

High level engine specs as follows:
  • 500 CI based on a 400 block with 4.150" stroke Eagle crankshaft
  • ~9.7:1 compression with KB forged pistons
  • Comp cam hydraulic roller camshaft; 236 intake and 242 exhaust duration
  • Mildly ported Edelbrock Performer RPM aluminum heads with Crane rockers
  • Holley Street Dominator manifold
As installed in the 69 Barracuda it came out of:
Engine_in_car2.jpg


Here it is on my engine stand at home:
Engine_Home.jpg


I have started to do some inspection of the engine. I at least want to put a bigger oil pan on it, but will also verify a few other things as well before I install it in the car.

More to come!

Hawk
 
Engine Inspection:

My father-in-law and I spent some time with it yesterday while we were digesting our turkey. Overall, this engine has great parts and looks nicely built. The aluminum heads have been nicely and cleanly ported without going overboard. Likewise, the Holley Street Dominator manifold was also port matched without going overboard. Cam and lifter alignment looks spot on, and things overall look clean and in good shape.

I had been told that the rear main seal was likely seeping when the engine warmed up. Oil residue on the exhaust confirmed that something was certainly leaking. Problem was, while we saw evidence of oil in a few places, we did NOT see evidence of oil coming from the rear main seal. This area was actually dry except for the area where the oil pan mates to the block at the rear main seal. There was a lot of RTV inside the oil pan bolt holes, and this should be avoided because it will screw up torquing the oil pan bolts. Bottom line here is that it looks like oil pan seal may have been the issue. I'll roll the dice with the rear main seal since it looks good and by doing it over I could certainly cause the same issues anyway.

20191129_152017.jpg
20191129_152026.jpg


One area of concern my father-in-law had was the camshaft plug. It is a shallow plug and should instead be a deeper plug. Also, these caps should have sealer on them to avoid oil leaks, but we saw no evidence of any sealer. This area was a wet with oil (picture shows after wiping) so there is some concern that oil could be seeping through this. It is not easily replaceable with the engine assembled so I will merely try to super-clean and seal this area.

20191129_151835.jpg


Another oil concern area was the intake manifold seal. Oil was obviously seeping from the seal, and on top of that, the spark plugs were oil fouled. After removal and inspection, overall manifold fitment seems to be OK. So I will simply reseal this when the manifold goes back on with two sets of gaskets: between the heads & valley pan as well as the valley pan & intake manifold.
20191128_125131.jpg
20191128_134200.jpg
20191129_153521.jpg


Now to do some research on the ideal intake manifold.

Hawk
 
Some of you that have been around awhile know this story. For others, here is the short version.

In January of 2014, I started a restoration of my 70 Road Runner with the intent to drive it across country. Details here in case you are interested:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/hawk-rod-the-restoration.65096/

Well, I got it done it time (just barely!) and my buddy Barry and I then drove across country - we posted photos of our progress as we did so. Details here in case you are interested:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/hawks-cross-country-70-road-runner-trip.97639/

This restoration and trip is still one of the top 10 highlights of my life. Lots of great member support from FBBO too that made it even more fun. I can without question state that without FBBO the trip would never have happened. So now it is time for another trip! Around September 2020 we plan to do it again, this time both ways over a two month period!

This thread is about some of the items to "Tune Up" the 'ol girl and get her ready for the trip. She still runs and drives great but here is an initial list of things I want to do before we leave:
  • Install a new engine to protect the original, unrestored 383.
  • Replace my transmission with an appropriate overdrive
  • Fix a nagging windshield leak
  • Verify/ improve my fuel tank vent to avoid spillovers with a full tank
  • Improve the fit of the side glass for a quieter ride
  • Improve the door cards and fix an irritating rattle in the passenger door
Below are a couple of pictures as she now sits.

Here comes another adventure!

Hawk

View attachment 874227
View attachment 874230
Weelll, the bottom 3 concerns are all part of the experience,lol. It’s not a Cadillac! With my ride not back yet, I’m still worrying about going to see Justin(moparnation) with a 3-hr drive to Columbus,Oh. when mine is back together. Of course it made a trip to Calif. back in 1970.
 
Keep us appraised of the details, especially if coming thru NE Ohio off I-76 by Summit Racing. Jeff
 
Weelll, the bottom 3 concerns are all part of the experience,lol. It’s not a Cadillac! With my ride not back yet, I’m still worrying about going to see Justin(moparnation) with a 3-hr drive to Columbus,Oh. when mine is back together. Of course it made a trip to Calif. back in 1970.

Haha, yes, those minor issues certainly didn't ruin the ride back in 2015, although I'd rather burn the gasoline than shoot it out onto the street! My average MPG was 17.2 for the whole trip last time, but some of that fuel was never burned in the car. Now with a 500 cube engine I doubt my fuel economy will improve, so I'll need every drop!

Hawk
 
Keep us appraised of the details, especially if coming thru NE Ohio off I-76 by Summit Racing. Jeff
Thanks! We met and partied with some great FBBO members last time, and hope to do the same this time as well. I'll start a post for the trip when the car is ready and around mid-summer next year. It would be fun to meet many FBBO folks if we can!

Hawk
 
One area of concern my father-in-law had was the camshaft plug. It is a shallow plug and should instead be a deeper plug. Also, these caps should have sealer on them to avoid oil leaks, but we saw no evidence of any sealer. This area was a wet with oil (picture shows after wiping) so there is some concern that oil could be seeping through this. It is not easily replaceable with the engine assembled so I will merely try to super-clean and seal this area.

Now to do some research on the ideal intake manifold.

The camshaft plug did have some kind of clear silicone, so I cleaned it as spotlessly clean as I could with 2+2 and then put a very thin bead of oil resistant RTV over the plug. Not sure this will do a lot if it really is leaking, but overall, hopefully this is not a problem area anyway.

I have also been researching intake manifolds. Hughes Engines has a great article that talks about intake manifolds for large cubic inch engines. Basically, you want an intake manifold to have 16-20% more flow than your heads so they do not become a restriction. The Edelbrock Performer Heads flow an advertised 291 CFM in the intake port, so ideally an intake manifold would flow about 338 CFM or more.

My problem is my air grabber - it doesn't move. Since this is a low deck block, I can put the baseplate from a 440 on it and gain some additional space. Here is a 383/400 baseplate (left) next to a 440 baseplate (right).
20191129_152414.jpg


I made a simple measuring device that measures the height difference. It sits flush with a 383 baseplate and this allows me to measure the difference:
20191129_152945.jpg


So with some compression of my air grabber gasket, 3/4 to 1" is all the bigger a manifold I can put on the engine. An ideal manifold would be the Edelbrock Victor manifold (flows about 340 CFM with a deep port match), but it is simply too tall to fit. Two decent alternatives are the Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold and, guess what, the Holley Street Dominator manifold that came with the engine. Overall, they both flow a little over 280 CFM, but the Holley has a more even distribution of air. Since the Holley has some mild porting, it is likely flowing 300 - 310 CFM.

Since the Holley Street Dominator manifold (just barely) fits the air grabber, I will continue to use it. The engine could ideally use a little higher flowing manifold, but I simply don't have the space. Onward!
 
I wish that I could join your trek Hawk! The GTX still has a spun bearing and I still haven’t started putting the 340-6 together for the Barracuda. That trip is on my bucket list for sure!!! It would be awesome to do it with one or more other Mopars! I admire your ambition.
 
Weelll, the bottom 3 concerns are all part of the experience,lol. It’s not a Cadillac! With my ride not back yet, I’m still worrying about going to see Justin(moparnation) with a 3-hr drive to Columbus,Oh. when mine is back together. Of course it made a trip to Calif. back in 1970.
Im still waiting Jeff!
 
Item 1 will take until the day of departure. I’ve got a clean never bored 440 block but plan to squeeze another year out of the current motor due to expected down time. Get that and step 4 done and skip the rest. Thought you already have OD. You already know that each item takes twice as long and costs twice as much as estimated.
 
I wish that I could join your trek Hawk! The GTX still has a spun bearing and I still haven’t started putting the 340-6 together for the Barracuda. That trip is on my bucket list for sure!!! It would be awesome to do it with one or more other Mopars! I admire your ambition.
Well, come with us, at least part of the way! You've got 10 months to either fix a spun bearing or to get the 340-6 done (what a lovely engine, by the way!). I find I always work best with a definitive goal. We'd love to have you, at least for part of the journey!
Seriously - think about it! :thumbsup:

Great thread! enjoying this update on a beautiful ride!
Thanks Justin! It's not quite your GTX, but nor is it meant to be. My goal continues to be to make it look as original as possible (within reason) while adding fun or comfort items to make driving the car a joy.

Item 1 will take until the day of departure. I’ve got a clean never bored 440 block but plan to squeeze another year out of the current motor due to expected down time. Get that and step 4 done and skip the rest. Thought you already have OD. You already know that each item takes twice as long and costs twice as much as estimated.
Well, Dennis: I guess I like challenges, but I also want everything to work perfectly!
The engine (Item 1) is all together and all I am doing is giving it a quick check before I throw it in the car. Hopefully should be done in a month or two. Then I'll get some driving time with it to gain confidence that it has no issues.
For my vent issue (Item 4), I think I already have that partially solved with an appropriate cap that vents both ways (not just in). But I also plan to add back the California vent into the trunk to give greater height and volume capability before I spit any fuel on the ground. That project will probably need to wait until March or so.
Finally, yes I have a Passion built OD that is a lower power transmission (it is not an 18 spline beefy unit). I'm just worried that if I throw 600 lb ft at it it is going to make like a grenade. So until I switch it out, I'll have to go gently with my right foot!

Hawk
 
Raw fuel fumes equaled breakdowns as the number one annoyance on my trip. Bad news. Take care of it then test under many different circumstances. Heat, amount of fuel, angle of nose when parked. But, you know this.

On the OD, I’m happy with the SST TKO 5. Silver Sport. Quick delivery too. Got the taller of the two. Nice little drop of rpms at highway speeds over the Kreisler.
 
Raw fuel fumes equaled breakdowns as the number one annoyance on my trip. Bad news. Take care of it then test under many different circumstances. Heat, amount of fuel, angle of nose when parked. But, you know this.

On the OD, I’m happy with the SST TKO 5. Silver Sport. Quick delivery too. Got the taller of the two. Nice little drop of rpms at highway speeds over the Kreisler.

I'm just trying to avoid cutting up my transmission tunnel. I'm still hopping Jamie Passon can come through for me with the A855
 
Engine Inspection:

My father-in-law and I spent some time with it yesterday while we were digesting our turkey. Overall, this engine has great parts and looks nicely built. The aluminum heads have been nicely and cleanly ported without going overboard. Likewise, the Holley Street Dominator manifold was also port matched without going overboard. Cam and lifter alignment looks spot on, and things overall look clean and in good shape.

I had been told that the rear main seal was likely seeping when the engine warmed up. Oil residue on the exhaust confirmed that something was certainly leaking. Problem was, while we saw evidence of oil in a few places, we did NOT see evidence of oil coming from the rear main seal. This area was actually dry except for the area where the oil pan mates to the block at the rear main seal. There was a lot of RTV inside the oil pan bolt holes, and this should be avoided because it will screw up torquing the oil pan bolts. Bottom line here is that it looks like oil pan seal may have been the issue. I'll roll the dice with the rear main seal since it looks good and by doing it over I could certainly cause the same issues anyway.

View attachment 874301 View attachment 874302

One area of concern my father-in-law had was the camshaft plug. It is a shallow plug and should instead be a deeper plug. Also, these caps should have sealer on them to avoid oil leaks, but we saw no evidence of any sealer. This area was a wet with oil (picture shows after wiping) so there is some concern that oil could be seeping through this. It is not easily replaceable with the engine assembled so I will merely try to super-clean and seal this area.

View attachment 874307

Another oil concern area was the intake manifold seal. Oil was obviously seeping from the seal, and on top of that, the spark plugs were oil fouled. After removal and inspection, overall manifold fitment seems to be OK. So I will simply reseal this when the manifold goes back on with two sets of gaskets: between the heads & valley pan as well as the valley pan & intake manifold.
View attachment 874318 View attachment 874319 View attachment 874320

Now to do some research on the ideal intake manifold.

Hawk

Make sure these two recessed areas are filled with sealant. One of our great engine builders on this site mentioned it after I installed my pan. Wish I knew about it sooner because it's where I have a slight leak. It will only do it after jacking up the front end. It will leave a drop or two on the floor afterwards and then after a couple days it stops.

The void without sealer will allow oil to seep under the gasket.
Screenshot_20191130-224006.jpg
 
Make sure these two recessed areas are filled with sealant. One of our great engine builders on this site mentioned it after I installed my pan. Wish I knew about it sooner because it's where I have a slight leak. It will only do it after jacking up the front end. It will leave a drop or two on the floor afterwards and then after a couple days it stops.

The void without sealer will allow oil to seep under the gasket.
View attachment 875103
Thanks Kid! To the best that we can determine, this is the general area where the oil leak was coming from.

My father-in-law pointed out the areas circled (as you mentioned, those recessed areas). He also said to be very careful and seal the joint between the cap and the block (just outboard of your blue arrows and also circled on mine). Interestingly, he said to be careful NOT to get a lot of RTV into the oil pan bolt holes (with the red X). He said if you get too much in there you can end up with a hydro-static "lock" that doesn't allow the bolt to fully seat. The RTV can effectively make the bolt hole too shallow and not allow the pan to fully seat.

Now to see how well a newbie like me can do it!!! :praying:

Rear_main_seal.jpg
 
Thanks Kid! To the best that we can determine, this is the general area where the oil leak was coming from.

My father-in-law pointed out the areas circled (as you mentioned, those recessed areas). He also said to be very careful and seal the joint between the cap and the block (just outboard of your blue arrows and also circled on mine). Interestingly, he said to be careful NOT to get a lot of RTV into the oil pan bolt holes (with the red X). He said if you get too much in there you can end up with a hydro-static "lock" that doesn't allow the bolt to fully seat. The RTV can effectively make the bolt hole too shallow and not allow the pan to fully seat.

Now to see how well a newbie like me can do it!!! :praying:

View attachment 875185
You are basically "buttering" it......Not the "more is better" thought......
 
Be careful with the RTV,my friend started experiencing oil pressure issues in his 69 Dart GTS. When we pulled the pan,the pickup was loaded with silicone. I cleaned the screen,and got about enough silicone out of it to fill a spray can cap. I pulled the pickup,and used a wire to check if any got past the screen. We pulled the caps off the rods and mains,a few bearings showed some very minor scoring,the crank looked fine. we replaced the bearings,retorqued the rods and mains,and installed a fresh oil pump. I think we caught it just in time before any damage happened. It is the matching numbers 383 engine. I told him,I like to use the Indian head sealer,and I put the gaskets on the windage tray the day before I install them,and let them dry overnight with the bolts just snugged in place,then the next day I apply a light coat of the Indian head sealer on the sides that mate to the block and pan,then I snug it up,using thread sealer on the bolts.
 
Auto Transport Service
Back
Top