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Hellcrate, Old School aluminum build, or Modern Gen III Aluminum build?

nativefx

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I have a 68 Dodge charger with a 383/727 non-numbers matching. I lost oil pressure a few weeks ago and am still waiting to get it looked at and hoping I don't have to rebuild. I already had plans when I bought the car to build another pro-touring/restomod, but I had hoped to drive with the 383/727 while my first project got completed (69 Firebird project, 550hp forged LS3, T56 Mag, air-ride, etc.)
If the 383 has to be torn down, I don't know if I want to spend the money to rebuild as I probably couldn't recoup a majority of it when I sell it off. Since I want to be able to drive the charger while finishing the firebird, I'm starting to look at my options sooner rather than later. I want something mainly street driven, dependable for longer drives, obviously hp/torq to be fun when I want, and I'm hoping to at least get somewhere around 20 mpg so I can actually take the car on longer trips and not worrying to much about distance to next gas station. Most likely I will put a 6spd in the car to help with this.
These cars are nose heavy, so if I don't go the Hellcrate route, I'm really interested in the MP aluminum blocks/Indy Maxx blocks to save weight as I heard it could be substantial. My question for these is, what are the significant pros/cons when considering a stroked 400 or 440 old school aluminum build, compared to looking at the Gen III aluminum block as a base? Both options would be fuel injected and I might look to keep the engine looking like more of an old school motor. From some of the research I've done it looks like I can easily get around 600 hp/500 tq NA out of either option. Does the Gen III offer enough positives given it would be newer style/technology to help with what I'm after? Reliability, street-ability, decent mpg etc? Obviously the suspension, body stiffening and other things will be addressed as I tear into this, but I'd like to hear thoughts about engine choices (including the Hellcrate), which would then probably help to iron out these other choices.

Only have a couple pics of the charger:
charger1.jpg
charger2.jpg
 
I've got a stroked 383, aluminum heads, w/p n housing, intake manifold and radiator. Use a sanden a/c compressor as it's much smaller n lighter n more efficient. From what I've gathered, mine weighs what a stock small block does now. I'm at 610hp at 5,300 rpm at the crank n 670tq. Definitely doesn't seem nose heavy. Idles at 850 pulling 15" vacuum in park n 13.5" in drive. I'm sure w right gears n transmission etc along w EFI, you might squeeze out 20mpg on the interstate.
 
I have a 68 Dodge charger with a 383/727 non-numbers matching. I lost oil pressure a few weeks ago and am still waiting to get it looked at and hoping I don't have to rebuild. I already had plans when I bought the car to build another pro-touring/restomod, but I had hoped to drive with the 383/727 while my first project got completed (69 Firebird project, 550hp forged LS3, T56 Mag, air-ride, etc.)
If the 383 has to be torn down, I don't know if I want to spend the money to rebuild as I probably couldn't recoup a majority of it when I sell it off. Since I want to be able to drive the charger while finishing the firebird, I'm starting to look at my options sooner rather than later. I want something mainly street driven, dependable for longer drives, obviously hp/torq to be fun when I want, and I'm hoping to at least get somewhere around 20 mpg so I can actually take the car on longer trips and not worrying to much about distance to next gas station. Most likely I will put a 6spd in the car to help with this.
These cars are nose heavy, so if I don't go the Hellcrate route, I'm really interested in the MP aluminum blocks/Indy Maxx blocks to save weight as I heard it could be substantial. My question for these is, what are the significant pros/cons when considering a stroked 400 or 440 old school aluminum build, compared to looking at the Gen III aluminum block as a base? Both options would be fuel injected and I might look to keep the engine looking like more of an old school motor. From some of the research I've done it looks like I can easily get around 600 hp/500 tq NA out of either option. Does the Gen III offer enough positives given it would be newer style/technology to help with what I'm after? Reliability, street-ability, decent mpg etc? Obviously the suspension, body stiffening and other things will be addressed as I tear into this, but I'd like to hear thoughts about engine choices (including the Hellcrate), which would then probably help to iron out these other choices.

Only have a couple pics of the charger:View attachment 1182365 View attachment 1182366

That's three really, deep pocket options.

Remove the stroked BBM off the list. It will crush a GEN III N/A for power with modern TF-270 heads, but that's not really the goal of your build. Expect abysmal fuel economy, just comes with the territory of big displacement.

What you're looking for is not a Hellcrate, but a 392 (6.4) GEN III Hemi. These engines have always presented the best value, and in terms of driveability, it doesn't get any easier with the complete standalone engine management kit from Mopar. These engines are well over 500-HP (gross), I believe Mopar was rating the crate engines somewhere around 540-HP with a carburetor & 525-HP with EFI. I know my 2015 SRT Challenger M6 was lucky to get 18-19 MPG on the interstate, normally around 14-15 MPG around town. Should be able to get 20-MPG in a lighter car with 3.23 gears.

The issue with the Hellcrate, is the fact that these engines while in factory cars have torque management. Even the M6 (Tremec TR6060) experiences it during gear changes, so does the A8 (8HP70/8HP90). This is how they can build relatively durable modern transmissions, that in reality, are not as durable without this feature as a built TF-727. Sound German Automotive builds a standalone trans controller for the 8HP70/8HP90 if you want to go with an automatic.
 
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For a comparison, my 540 Indy engine with FAST EFI-2 weighed 420#.
Mike
 
I'd have to disagree w @Sweet5ltr on the "abysmal" mileage. W 3.73's, TF727, Gearvendor o/d which is barely an o/d, 26.5" diameter tires, at 70mph, 2,800rpm I get 12 w Fitech EFI. I bet w a bit better ratio o/d, 3.23 gears, a touch taller tire, 17-20 wouldn't be outa the question w a BBM. But, without actually doing it or knowing someone who has, just a guess based on where I'm at.
 
I'd have to disagree w @Sweet5ltr on the "abysmal" mileage. W 3.73's, TF727, Gearvendor o/d which is barely an o/d, 26.5" diameter tires, at 70mph, 2,800rpm I get 12 w Fitech EFI. I bet w a bit better ratio o/d, 3.23 gears, a touch taller tire, 17-20 wouldn't be outa the question w a BBM. But, without actually doing it or knowing someone who has, just a guess based on where I'm at.

12-MPG is fairly abysmal. Well, to most people, just not us :D
 
Build the big block.. gen 3 is like a LS swap its over done . Just my 2cents not trying to piss ya off but if the epa makes the emissions laws pass you’ll be putting cats on in the future with testing.
 
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Your BEST option ? Easy. Don't bother going through all that trouble. Sell that car to me real cheap. ( I'll even let you throw in the trailer for free. )
 
12-MPG is fairly abysmal. Well, to most people, just not us :D
Totally agree 12 is. But I bet w an 8sp auto, 3.23 gears and 28" tires, plus way better fuel management n timing than a throttle body efi, 17mpg is attainable. 17 is what I get on my daily, '03 Cummins 6sp. That's my most fuel efficient vehicle other than motorcycles. My boats are worse, 2mpg.
 
Totally agree 12 is. But I bet w an 8sp auto, 3.23 gears and 28" tires, plus way better fuel management n timing than a throttle body efi, 17mpg is attainable. 17 is what I get on my daily, '03 Cummins 6sp. That's my most fuel efficient vehicle other than motorcycles. My boats are worse, 2mpg.

I got 17.8 mpg with the 440 in my Sport Satellite on a 250 mile trip to Roanoke last month. Running a Holley Sniper with Hyperspark distributor for timing control, Tremec TKO-600 with .64 overdrive, and 3.54 gears in the dana out back. I was expecting to get maybe 15 max and was pretty shocked when I did the math after filling up.

Of course, that was just cruising in OD, I average about 10-11 around town.
 
I got 17.8 mpg with the 440 in my Sport Satellite on a 250 mile trip to Roanoke last month. Running a Holley Sniper with Hyperspark distributor for timing control, Tremec TKO-600 with .64 overdrive, and 3.54 gears in the dana out back. I was expecting to get maybe 15 max and was pretty shocked when I did the math after filling up.

Of course, that was just cruising in OD, I average about 10-11 around town.
Totally agree with that! The Gearvendor on mine is 0.78:1 which combined w 3.73's n 26.5 tires puts me at 2,800 rpm at 70. Interstate here is 75 n I like to cruise at 80. At that point I'm buzzing at 3k. One day I'll change to 3.23's n a bit taller rear tire. I "Never" race it n w 670tq, it'll still move just fine.
 
Spending your money I’d go with stroked big block with fuel injection. Go Hemi for even more cost but increased Wow factor.

Newer Hemi just don’t look correct or Bad *** as those big old Hemi valve covers.
 
Engine swaps will be the standard in the future.
When have you last seen:
A Model A with a four cylinder?
A Vega with a four cylinder?
A Camaro with a 6 cylinder?
A Satellite with a slant six?
A Chevy II with a four cylinder?
Why build something someone else has when the details are what makes a car unique?
My Gen III is detailed to the point that "very few" people recognize what I did. Even Mopar people don't see it. My car usually wins First or Second at every show. That is the lesson you are getting with the above answers. Whatever you do, details make the difference. If a screamer was all you want, then go electric. Make a Gen Lee 4x4 Electric and do a 4 wheel burnout when you leave and do something no one else has done. Chargers are hot looking moving or sitting and beg to be different.

DSCN1416.JPG
 
Hell crate, there is no torque management on it, the FACTORY HCat car does, if the Hellcrate would have been around when I was building my car that is what I would have done, I have 68 Charger 512 low deck Hilborn EFI, OD trans, I get about 15 MPG on the road if I drive VERY easy, thats hard to do LOL, I also have a 2020 T/A 392 Challenger for what it is it runs very good, on the road it gets 22 MPG, for me I would not waste my money on another BB stroker, HELLCRATE all the way
 
Cam choice in the bbm is going to have a lot to do with mpg, and then the rpm you drive it at. Bbm with a healthy cam is not efficient loping along at the rpms modern engines do. Crazy OD ratio is not the answer. My charger has a 440 with a 484 cam and TKO, it's happier buzzing in 4th at 55-60mph than 5th. I really only use 5th on the interstate. 4.10 Dana and the big .64 OD drop off. I actually wish I had less OD.
 
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