1. Glenwood

    Glenwood Well-Known Member

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    I thought I'd post about the struggle I've had with cooling this 426ci 64 Dodge. Since the motor was rebuilt from a 413 block, it tended to heat up on really hot days. An unusual story here I know! This is an account of improvements I made that seemed to have fixed the problem.
    The motor went through a number of upgrades over the last couple of years with things like aluminum heads, roller rockers, pertronix ignition, FBO adv plate, carb swap from 750 eddy to a holley 670, dougs cermaic headers and so on. The underhood heat was incredible during the hotter days and the temperature really rises faster with the hood closed.
    The cooling system consisted of a summit cast hv pump, 22" OER rad which has 2x1" tubes, eventually adding a custom shroud with a 7-blade 18" mopar fan that is 2" deep. Regardless of where the fan was position, it seemed like it wasn't drawing enough air. So on went a derale 16" elec 2-speed pusher fan, which of course required a new power master alternator, regulator and properly sized wiring , which made a huge difference with idle voltage.
    Still, I don't like having to worry about temperatures and possible over heating. This past July was unbearably hot, so I could not even be bothered to drive it much. The car is running well but the temps climb while idling, even out of the sun in the shop. The electric fan has to be on full to make a difference but does work.
    Looking at flow in the rad when the 180 stat opened, there was hardly a ripple with the summit high volume pump. I've had it out to inspect and I don't believe there is anything wrong with it. Ordered and installed a new alum milodon hv pump after reading some reviews about flow at low rpm. The flow improvement was dramatic and slowed the rate of heat rise, but still climbed to over 220. A smaller pulley might have helped with the other pump and fan, but can't find one.
    I then ordered a new derale 17" mechanical fan, hoping it would pull more air. Unfortunately it didn't and its depth is also 2", the same as the 7-blade I have.
    I had suspected from the beginning that the 22" rad was a tad too small for this motor's cooling requirements and although more airflow would have helped, There is not enough room for electric puller fans or a clutch fan, even the shallow clutch type. Enough is enough, so I ordered a new cold case 26" rad with 2x1.25" tubes and a new shroud meant for B & E bodies.
    The installation into the 64 is snug since it was never designed for anything beyond a 22". A little trimming of the mounting ears and I was able to get it in place. I decided not to trim the opening yet, so I could see how it cools with the extra capacity. Thankfully the rad hoses still lined up as do the transmission lines with a little tweaking. The 20" dia. shroud centered with the fan horizontally, but it a tad high vertically. Still lots of room for an 18" fan. The cold case mounting ears for the shroud are flush with the core and does not permit the shroud to fit tightly around the core unfortunately, leaving a 1/4" gap along the top and bottom. I'll seal it with something if necessary.
    With a mix of more water and less antifreeze, the car was started using the 7-blade fan. Heat rise was much slower and seemed to top off around 210 or so. Still too hot for my liking. I tried to move the fan back, changing the spacer from 1" to 1/2". It made it worse. I richened up the idle screw 1/2 turn in case I have it too lean, but did not see an improvement although the #5 & 8 header tubes started to cool down a bit more from about 570 degrees to just over 500. Still 100 degrees hotter than the other cylinders. I suspect that intake runner that feeds both is running lean, but I don't know why yet.
    I opted to try a factory flex fan I have which has quite a pitch being 3" deep. I'm aware of the risk with these things, but I wanted to see if airflow would improve and if it made a difference. Pics to follow...
     
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    • Glenwood

      Glenwood Well-Known Member

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      64 Polara
      20190524_185121.jpg
       
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      • Glenwood

        Glenwood Well-Known Member

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        22" rad
        20190514_191504-jpg.jpg

        with the 7-blade and 1/2" spacer...too far out of the shroud and didn't work well.
        IMG_5193.JPG
         
      • Glenwood

        Glenwood Well-Known Member

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        pumps. summit HV (top), Milodon HV (bottom)
        20190718_175624.jpg

        20190718_174127.jpg
         
      • Glenwood

        Glenwood Well-Known Member

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        derale 17" and mopar 7-blade fans (fixed & flex)
        20190718_173941.jpg 20190718_173959.jpg DSCN0237.JPG
         
      • Glenwood

        Glenwood Well-Known Member

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        Both rads were supposed to have tubes 3/8" apart, but the OER is actually further apart. There's about 4-5 tubes more on the cold case vs the oer across 22".
        IMG_5197.JPG IMG_5198.JPG IMG_5199.JPG IMG_5200.JPG

        IMG_5204.JPG IMG_5205.JPG IMG_5206.JPG IMG_5207.JPG IMG_5208.JPG IMG_5209.JPG
         
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        • Glenwood

          Glenwood Well-Known Member

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          snug but fit with some trimming.

          IMG_5211.JPG IMG_5212.JPG IMG_5218.JPG IMG_5219.JPG
           
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          • Glenwood

            Glenwood Well-Known Member

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            .

            IMG_5220.JPG IMG_5221.JPG IMG_5222.JPG
             
          • Glenwood

            Glenwood Well-Known Member

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            flex fan with 1.25" spacer moves a lot of air. It now can suck a rag on the grill!

            IMG_5223.JPG IMG_5224.JPG IMG_5225.JPG IMG_5226.JPG
             
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            • Glenwood

              Glenwood Well-Known Member

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              The new combo has had a dramatic impact. The temps while driving in hot weather are below the stat at around 170. The true test was to drive in traffic on a hot day, so I went to meet up with some high school buddies and decided to take the 64 downtown. Traffic was heavy and I got caught at every damn red light. The temps never rose above 180! I could hardly believe the difference.
              This rad does not sit on an angle to match the fan/drivetrain angle, but I think I now have a bit more room for a clutch fan at 3.25" of space. I don't really trust flex fans but it will have to do until I find a fan. I already ordered and received the shallow clutch from Hayden which is about 2-5/8" deep. Nice to drive with a bit more confidence...
               
              Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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              • Glenwood

                Glenwood Well-Known Member

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                milodon flows great at 1000 rpm

                 
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                • Ccas

                  Ccas FBBO Vendor FBBO Sponsor

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                  That's exciting to hear! You spent a lot of time and energy on this but with good results it finally becomes worth it!
                   
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                  • Glenwood

                    Glenwood Well-Known Member

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                    Now I'm waiting for the hot days instead of dreading them.
                     
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                    • Mike67

                      Mike67 Well-Known Member

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                      Glad to hear you have it whipped! Get some foam weather strip tape and seal up that 1/4" gap and you should see a little more improvement. Get all the air going through the radiator not around it.
                       
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                      • Steve009

                        Steve009 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        Currently dealing with the same stuff on my 64. Driving around at night it’s fine. Hot days 210-220 especially in traffic according to the SW gauge. Factory temp gauge says I’m barely out of the cold zone so no idea what to believe. Just purchased 26” be cool rad and electric fan and a clutch fan. Not sure what setup I’m going to use but I hate worrying about temps as well! Ruins the cruise!
                         
                      • Darter6

                        Darter6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                        Steve009, My 63 Belvedere the factory gauge in the cluster shows almost pegged hot while the mechanical temp gauge is showing 190*. Confirmed with a lazer temp gauge reading the same at the intake fitting.My guess is the 'ol factory gauge is just about out of warranty.
                         
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                        • Darter6

                          Darter6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                          Glenwood, Thanks for all the photos. Photos are always helpful and I enjoy seeing what others have done. You get that "Well lookie here,I never would have thought of that" feeling.
                           
                        • Steve009

                          Steve009 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                          Mine never boils over so I’m not sure if either gauge is correct. Runs well too so I’m iffy on changing anything. What setup do you have? What’s a good running temp? 200*?
                           
                        • Darter6

                          Darter6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                          Depending on what thermostat you are running should determine operating temperature. And the temp given for a thermostat is when the thermostat "starts" to open. A 180* should give you a operating temp of about 185-190* under normal conditions.Not saying that under certain conditions it may reach the 200* mark.Modern cars run about 210* normal.
                          A fresh engine with clean coolant passages will run close to the thermostats given degree. Had a guy with a 66 Charger with 50+ years of sediment in the block with high heat problems.We pulled the core plugs and took a wire hanger to 'um to break it all loose.All the normal stuff, fresh rad,T-stat,hoses and high heat problem solved.
                           
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                          • khryslerkid

                            khryslerkid FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                            Speedcool Radiator, stock eight blade water pump, Derale ridged fan, hand made fan shroud. Hottest it ever gets is 200 degs in 90 deg temps in stop and go traffic. Average temp is 185 degs with a 180 deg Super Stant t-stat
                            20170614_171126.jpg 20170614_170915.jpg
                            No more than 1/3 of the fan showing out of the shroud.

                            The less antifreeze you can get by with the better. Water displaces heat better than antifreeze.

                            Distilled water only. Water Wetter or Kool It does help.

                            Ethanol gas runs hotter than non ethanol.

                            Not enough timing will make an engine run hot.
                             
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