Hughes or Engle cam

[91r/t]

Looking to get a cam for my 500" Stroker build this winter. I have talked to Dave at Hughes and he spec'd out a cam for me that he said would run pretty well on the street with 3.91 gears and a 4 speed. See below:

My question is has anyone dealt with Engle cams? I called and talked to Chris who is super cool and seems great to deal with. He put me at a .534 lift hydraulic flat tappet with 238 duration @ .050 which seems pretty close to the Hughes. His cam is ground on a 110 or 112 degree centerline (really whatever centerline I want) to increase my idle quality and vacuum for power brakes. Does this seem feasible? What direction would you all recommend? I am thinking the Hughes cam may give me issues with the power brakes with low vacuum but wanna hear some opinions. How does everyone feel with the same lift and duration for intake and exhaust vs the different numbers from Hughes? Chris told me Mopar cams mostly work well with single pattern lift/duration vs the duals in most cases unless your trying for every extra HP you can grab. Thoughts?

 

[69a100]

Guess what? There the same! Engle's grinds them for Hughes. Good Luck

 

[91r/t]

Not according to Engle.....he said they haven't ground Hughes cams in quite a while due some riff with the Hughes guys. Guess they went separate ways a while back. Plus I am interested in any other info on the different lifts on the two and lobe angles.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

What exactly do you intend to do with the 500-wedge? Do you already have a cylinder head selected / purchased?

 

[91r/t]

Edelbrock RPM Performer heads on it now. Street car. Take it to ice cream and dinner and the occasional flogging on the street. Nothing past 5500RPM.

 

[69a100]

Not according to Engle.....he said they haven't ground Hughes cams in quite a while due some riff with the Hughes guys. Guess they went separate ways a while back. Plus I am interested in any other info on the different lifts on the two and lobe angles.

I did not know that. Thanks

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Edelbrock RPM Performer heads on it now. Street car. Take it to ice cream and dinner and the occasional flogging on the street. Nothing past 5500RPM.

Do you plan on running an adjustable valve train? The Hughes camshaft has a fairly fast ramp-rate, it's not going to be easy on parts unless it has an asymmetrical lobe design. I wouldn't worry about it, personally I feel the Engle makes more sense, it has a slower ramp-rate and will generally be easier on parts. Look over the overlap figures for each, should give you a good indication of sound and drive ability, which will be important while cruising to the ice-cream parlor.

 

[oldbee]

With my limited knowledge, I’d go with the Engle, better drivability per the specs. Interested in the answers to come.

 

[Fran Blacker]

If you plan to any 75 mile highway drives 3.91's. I'd drop to 3.73 or 3.50's with a 500 cid engine just MO. Put 4.10's in my car in spring VERY unhappy with them. 3500 rpm and I'm clogging up the highway. They're coming out.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

If you plan to any 75 mile highway drives 3.91's. I'd drop to 3.73 or 3.50's with a 500 cid engine just MO. Put 4.10's in my car in spring VERY unhappy with them. 3500 rpm and I'm clogging up the highway. They're coming out.

With 500-cubes, he could get great performance out of 3.23's. No reason to be 'that guy' on the interstate anymore.

 

[91r/t]

If you plan to any 75 mile highway drives 3.91's. I'd drop to 3.73 or 3.50's with a 500 cid engine just MO. Put 4.10's in my car in spring VERY unhappy with them. 3500 rpm and I'm clogging up the highway. They're coming out.

I thought the very same thing. I’m looking to build a set of 3.55s over the winter and I feel with the amount of power this motor makes, it won’t hurt me one bit.

 

[91r/t]

Do you plan on running an adjustable valve train? The Hughes camshaft has a fairly fast ramp-rate, it's not going to be easy on parts unless it has an asymmetrical lobe design. I wouldn't worry about it, personally I feel the Engle makes more sense, it has a slower ramp-rate and will generally be easier on parts. Look over the overlap figures for each, should give you a good indication of sound and drive ability, which will be important while cruising to the ice-cream parlor.

I have adjustable rockers but I agree the Engle sounds like the way to go in that aspect. I like the sound of 108 degree centerline cams but the low vacuum for the brakes sucks. Engle said 110 or 112 would be much better.

 

[69a100]

Do you plan on running an adjustable valve train? The Hughes camshaft has a fairly fast ramp-rate, it's not going to be easy on parts unless it has an asymmetrical lobe design. I wouldn't worry about it, personally I feel the Engle makes more sense, it has a slower ramp-rate and will generally be easier on parts.

This is true. I went with the Hughes 2330 can which is now the 2328? If you look on Hughes site and the requirements for certain cams, you'll find that some require adjustable's over a certain lift limit. It wouldn't surprise me if Engle's isn't far off from Hughes on what parts are required. Good Luck

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I have adjustable rockers but I agree the Engle sounds like the way to go in that aspect. I like the sound of 108 degree centerline cams but the low vacuum for the brakes sucks. Engle said 110 or 112 would be much better.

Well, if you want to get into more depth (concerning possible drive ability) lets do this calculation. (Engle is example)
#1 - Intake Duration (add) Exhaust Duration (divide) by two = _______ (238 + 238 = 476 / 2 = 238)
#2 - LSA (multiply) by two = _____ (112 + 112 = 224)
Subtract #1 from #2 = ____ (238 - 224 = 14*)

Road Runner (OEM) camshaft = 4.5* (adv. 46* overlap)
MP .474 = 18* overlap (adv. 60* overlap)
Comp .480 = 11* overlap (adv. 60* overlap)
MP .484 = 25* overlap (adv. 68* overlap)
MP .509 = 32* overlap (adv. 76* overlap)
MP .528 SFT = 17* overlap (adv. 60* overlap)
Lunati .533 = 18* overlap (adv. 60* overlap)
Engle .534 = 18* overlap
Lunati .552 = 27* overlap (adv. 68* overlap)
MP .557 SFT = 32* overlap (adv. 76* overlap)
Hughes .573 = 28* overlap
MP .590 SFT = 58* overlap (adv. 100* overlap)
Lunati .606 SFT = 43* overlap (adv. 72* overlap)

Now, that gives us a better picture of the idle quality and drive-ability. Lots of popular camshafts here.

 

[91r/t]

Well, if you want to get into more depth (concerning possible drive ability) lets do this calculation. (Engle is example)
#1 - Intake Duration (add) Exhaust Duration (divide) by two = _______ (238 + 238 = 476 / 2 = 238)
#2 - LSA (multiply) by two = _____ (112 + 112 = 224)
Subtract #1 from #2 = ____ (238 - 224 = 14*)

Engle = 14* overlap
Hughes = 28* overlap

Now, that gives us a better picture of how different both camshafts really are.

Wow way above my pay grade! I was thinking of going with a 110 overlap with the Engle and hopefully that would get me what I was after idle sound as well and boost vacuum a bit.

 

[m79ded]

Looking to get a cam for my 500" Stroker build this winter. I have talked to Dave at Hughes and he spec'd out a cam for me that he said would run pretty well on the street with 3.91 gears and a 4 speed. See below:
View attachment 658397

My question is has anyone dealt with Engle cams? I called and talked to Chris who is super cool and seems great to deal with. He put me at a .534 lift hydraulic flat tappet with 238 duration @ .050 which seems pretty close to the Hughes. His cam is ground on a 110 or 112 degree centerline (really whatever centerline I want) to increase my idle quality and vacuum for power brakes. Does this seem feasible? What direction would you all recommend? I am thinking the Hughes cam may give me issues with the power brakes with low vacuum but wanna hear some opinions. How does everyone feel with the same lift and duration for intake and exhaust vs the different numbers from Hughes? Chris told me Mopar cams mostly work well with single pattern lift/duration vs the duals in most cases unless your trying for every extra HP you can grab. Thoughts?

I put almost the same cam but cut it @ 112 for a street car , better brakes and better drivability. I put into a 451 with TFS240 and it gave me great power 610hp 625tq. The person @ Hughes (Tim) is really great with picking out the cam. Ask him and you won't go wrong

 

[moper]

I'd go with the Engle. I've used Engle product (my own specs), I won't use Hughes product.

 

[91r/t]

I put almost the same cam but cut it @ 112 for a street car , better brakes and better drivability. I put into a 451 with TFS240 and it gave me great power 610hp 625tq. The person @ Hughes (Tim) is really great with picking out the cam. Ask him and you won't go wrong

How was the idle? Did it have a good chop to it still? What were you making for manifold vacuum on a gauge if you don't mind me asking?

 

[BSB67]

Looking to get a cam for my 500" Stroker build this winter. I have talked to Dave at Hughes and he spec'd out a cam for me that he said would run pretty well on the street with 3.91 gears and a 4 speed. See below:
View attachment 658397

My question is has anyone dealt with Engle cams? I called and talked to Chris who is super cool and seems great to deal with. He put me at a .534 lift hydraulic flat tappet with 238 duration @ .050 which seems pretty close to the Hughes. His cam is ground on a 110 or 112 degree centerline (really whatever centerline I want) to increase my idle quality and vacuum for power brakes. Does this seem feasible? What direction would you all recommend? I am thinking the Hughes cam may give me issues with the power brakes with low vacuum but wanna hear some opinions. How does everyone feel with the same lift and duration for intake and exhaust vs the different numbers from Hughes? Chris told me Mopar cams mostly work well with single pattern lift/duration vs the duals in most cases unless your trying for every extra HP you can grab. Thoughts?

Engle K series cam lobes and Hughes cam lobes are good choices. Engle has lobes like the ones recommended by Dave (K-62/K-64 244°/249°) and Hughes has a cam like the ones Chris recommended (SEH3642BL 236°/242°). So the question is why did Dave and Chris spec different size cams considering that they have similar sized cam lobes available? I suspect that the answer is that they heard something a little different from you......even if you generally used the same words. So you need to get real clear and concise on what you want and then be able to articulate.

Here is my guess:

Dave heard 3.91 and 4 speed and said to himself that the 500 inch motor will want more cam and still be happy around town because of the gear and 4 speed.

Chris heard that you want a clean idle with good vacuum, so he went smaller.

My opinion is that hanging the exhaust valve open longer on a lower compression (Street car) is not that important. I suspect that most people on here would disagree.

Knowing more about the car's detail would be helpful. I generally lean toward smaller when it comes to cams, and a little small will always perform well, where as a little too big can be frustrating when a guy cares a lot about idle quality. But in this case, if it were me (and somehow I wanted a hydraulic cam), I would probably lean more to Dave's recommendation, but have it ground on at least a 110° LSA, or maybe 112°. Just add a little extra idle rpm if you're down a bit on vacuum.

If you plan to go to a 3.23, then maybe lean more to high 230s° on the intake on 110°.

Finally, I would also consider installing it with 0° or maybe 2° advanced.

 

[91r/t]

Engle K series cam lobes and Hughes cam lobes are good choices. Engle has lobes like the ones recommended by Dave (K-62/K-64 244°/249°) and Hughes has a cam like the ones Chris recommended (SEH3642BL 236°/242°). So the question is why did Dave and Chris spec different size cams considering that they have similar sized cam lobes available? I suspect that the answer is that they heard something a little different from you......even if you generally used the same words. So you need to get real clear and concise on what you want and then be able to articulate.

Here is my guess:

Dave heard 3.91 and 4 speed and said to himself that the 500 inch motor will want more cam and still be happy around town because of the gear and 4 speed.

Chris heard that you want a clean idle with good vacuum, so he went smaller.

My opinion is that hanging the exhaust valve open longer on a lower compression (Street car) is not that important. I suspect that most people on here would disagree.

Knowing more about the car's detail would be helpful. I generally lean toward smaller when it comes to cams, and a little small will always perform well, where as a little too big can be frustrating when a guy cares a lot about idle quality. But in this case, if it were me (and somehow I wanted a hydraulic cam), I would probably lean more to Dave's recommendation, but have it ground on at least a 110° LSA, or maybe 112°. Just add a little extra idle rpm if you're down a bit on vacuum.

If you plan to go to a 3.23, then maybe lean more to high 230s° on the intake on 110°.

Finally, I would also consider installing it with 0° or maybe 2° advanced.

BSB67 awesome info! Actually Dave also recommended the SEH3642BL cam as well as a smaller choice. He gave me two options. I see the smaller of the two is good at 3000RPM an the bigger is 3500RPM. I just don't want to overcam the engine and be disappointed. Idle I want choppy but I need vacuum for the brakes. That is what makes me lean towards the 238 duration with a 110 degree lobe separation. I have also been told to bump the cam up by a couple sizes with the stroker as it will eat up some duration. I basically want a nice sounding street engine that doesn't idle like an RV like mine does now. The cam is so small it has almost zero chop to it. As long as it makes vacuum for the brakes, the rest is easily manageable with the 4 speed and a 3.55 gear in the rear. I am leaning towards that K60 grind with a 110 lobe separation. The smaller ramps in Chris's cam with less lift will be a little more forgiving to my valvetrain. UNless you think the 244 degrees of duration will be eaten up with the stroker by that much? The car is all stock weight and has 10.75:1 compression with eddy rpm performer heads, performer rpm manifold, 850 quick fuel w/ mechanical secondaries, and a 440 source 500" stroker rotating assembly. I have a 28" tall rear tire on it, so with 3.55's it will be right about 3000RPM at 70MPH. I do have a 3.23 sure grip center section here that I could throw in, but I think that drops me out of the power band I want around town to have fun with.