I'm going to slam college education.

SteveSS

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I have serious reservations about college education, extending even into high school education. It seems so many frivolous and superfluous things are being taught in our system and so many necessary life skills are left out. I have a bachelor's and a master's degree and 90% of what they taught me is completely useless in daily life. If I think of all the inane facts I memorized just so I could pass a test or write a paper and then forget it months later it boggles my mind. I do think education can help make you a well-rounded person but I also worry about indoctrination from a heavily liberal system.

I'm not saying you should be taught a specific type of trade from grade school on but I'm in favor of showing kids a spectrum of fields, what they can expect to earn and what are their chances of getting a job in said field. I think colleges are scamming our youth and their parents. Degrees seem to be more of a hurdle to be achieved than something that applies to real-world situations. As an example. One company I worked for looked for their managers to have master's degrees. It didn't matter what field that degree was obtained. The same goes for bachelors in some jobs. Kids don't need 4 semesters of English Lit but the colleges sure want the money they reap from those classes.
 

Dennis H

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My experience over the years at past employers is that the more “paper” carried by a fellow employee, the worse the employee. Mainly work habits like on time, book offs, etc.
 

Red63440

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I feel that no matter what your direction a working apprenticeship is the way to go. You get actual experience in the field of your choice. We have all met people that while college educated are hard pressed to tie their shoes and in the end have run up a huge debt for that “special training”. This isn’t meant to take from those on the board but for future thought. In the past steel mills offered apprenticeships in many areas which on some cases could transfer over to commercial type jobs. Once apprenticeships are completed journeyman cards are issued and in many cases are accepted in other states for proof of work training.
 
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Nxcoupe

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I dropped out of engineering school in my Junior year for exactly these reasons. After passing yet another class that seemed useless in a real world application, I asked the professor, 'when do I learn how to be an engineer?' His response was,'you learn that on the job'. My response was to drop out and switch majors. That BS degree I received(note this abbreviation stands for another common phrase) has gotten me 2 of the best jobs of my life and now I am a field service engineer. He's right, I did learn how to be an engineer on the job, just didn't need all that hassle and pressure of Engineering school.
Now, more and more places are dropping their Bachelor's degree requirements in favor of Associates or nothing at all. It really makes all my effort for undergrad and graduate studies seem like a waste of money. But alas, it is what it is.
 

Nxcoupe

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My experience over the years at past employers is that the more “paper” carried by a fellow employee, the worse the employee. Mainly work habits like on time, book offs, etc.
You know, I've heard that from so many people, especially technicians who called me a 'college idiot', now that I show up to bail their asses out of a jamb, they don't say that anymore. I have an excellent work ethic, I lose sleep over problems until I resolve them and I lift up my coworkers every chance I can. I never look down on someone because they have less education than I do. My father dropped out of school at 13 during the depression era in the 30s so he could work on river tugboats, later he got his ged and a bachelor's equivalent and taught Vocational School. Smartest, most honest man I ever met.
 

Dennis H

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Bill collectors still looking for other halfs daughter for student debt. Traced us to California. Papered up with phsyco shrink degree making marginal income. Do gooder.
 

Roadcuda

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That BS degree I received(note this abbreviation stands for another common phrase)
A long time ago a friend described those degrees like this,
BS Bull Sh!t
MS. More Sh!t
PHD, Pilled higher and deeper
and it still applies.
 

guy gadbois

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My dad - whose work engineering students still study in PhD programs - usta say " we all know what BS Means; well, MS is more of the same and PhD means Piled Higher and Deeper'..." Even tho he possessed all the letters behind his name - and NEVER used them in signatures, business cards etc - he understood that MOST college "educations" were useless. Degrees in basketweaving he would say.
As college is now just an indoctrination center, had I a child of that age I would not let them NEAR a college campus unless they were specific and driven to a particular profession in the hard sciences/engineering/medicine. Otherwise, its a waste of time and money and unless you REALLY raised em right and they have the ability to think for themselves, you will be handed a blithering marxist self hating fool back after 4 years of draining the family financially.
 

#41

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I have serious reservations about college education, extending even into high school education. It seems so many frivolous and superfluous things are being taught in our system and so many necessary life skills are left out. I have a bachelor's and a master's degree and 90% of what they taught me is completely useless in daily life. If I think of all the inane facts I memorized just so I could pass a test or write a paper and then forget it months later it boggles my mind. I do think education can help make you a well-rounded person but I also worry about indoctrination from a heavily liberal system.

I'm not saying you should be taught a specific type of trade from grade school on but I'm in favor of showing kids a spectrum of fields, what they can expect to earn and what are their chances of getting a job in said field. I think colleges are scamming our youth and their parents. Degrees seem to be more of a hurdle to be achieved than something that applies to real-world situations. As an example. One company I worked for looked for their managers to have master's degrees. It didn't matter what field that degree was obtained. The same goes for bachelors in some jobs. Kids don't need 4 semesters of English Lit but the colleges sure want the money they reap from those classes.

If I have learned just one thing in life, it is that an education is what YOU the student makes of it.

Unfortunately, this is primarily because the US education system (in general) is so dumbed down that every kid can get through it. Rather than challenging kids to learn how to think for themselves AND also weeding out the people who should not go beyond high school, we just want everyone to "participate". The system is only "scamming us" (as you say), because we, the general public insist that it be this way.

Take a good hard look at Germany's education system. That is an example of where we need to be - A focus on critical thinking and high achievement, and weeding out those deserving and receptive of a continuing education vs. those that should enter the workforce or go to trade school. Sports and other recreational activities should be pursued via clubs and organizations outside the school system. School should be for learning how to think, not what to think, or how to score a touchdown.
 

ksurfer2

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I work with a lot of young people and when we discuss college, I always encourage them to attend college AWAY from home. In my opinion, and experience, only half of what needs to be learned in college comes from the classroom. The other half comes from learning to be a responsible adult...to learn to manage time and money, to learn to about deadlines and to be able to meet all of your obligations without input from Mommy and Daddy. When a student stays with their parents while attending college, this part of their education is missed.
 

SteveSS

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Nobody's going to give you a full-blown job as an engineer without a degree. That's why I paid for and encouraged my son to get his BS in Mechanical Engineering. Now he has his first real engineering job with a great salary and benefits. My problem is with the universities. They make you take and pay for so many classes that are useless in any field of study.

Look at some of the classes you can take for your humanities and social science requirements.

  • ARCH 3114 — History and Theory of Architecture 1
  • ARCH 3214 — History and Theory of Architecture 2
  • ARCH 4010 — Architectural Appreciation and Design
  • ASEN 3036 — Introduction to Human Spaceflight
  • ASEN 3046 — Humans in Aviation
  • ASIA 4500 — Urban Asia: Tradition, Modernity, Challenges
  • ASTR 2000 — Ancient Astronomies of the World
  • ATLS 2000 — The Meaning of Information Technology
  • ATLS 4244 — Empathy and Technology
  • CMCI 3000 — Special Topics in CMCI [Space Age Kids/Media/Info]
  • COEN 2050 — Engineering Leadership Gateway
  • COEN 3050 — Complex Challenges in Leadership
  • CSCI 4250/5250 — Computer Science: The Canon
  • CVEN 2837 — Special Topics: Intro to Global Engineering
  • ECEN 3070 — Edges of Science
  • EDUC 2020 — Step 1: Inquiry Approaches to Teaching
  • EDUC 4023 — Differentiating Instruction in Diverse Secondary Classrooms
  • EDUC 4050 — Knowledge and Learning in Mathematics and Science
  • EMEN 4830 — Special Topics: Designing for DEI in Engineering (summer 2021 and spring 2022)
  • EMEN 4055 — Designing for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion in Engineering (summer 2022 and onwards)
  • ENGL 2006 — American Comics and Graphic Novels: An Ambivalent Art
  • ENGL 4106 — Literary Study with Data Science
  • ENVD 2001 — Social Factors in Environmental Design
  • ENVD 3009 — Special Topics in Environmental Design [Layers of Rome]
  • ENVD 3114 – History & Theory of Environmental Design Small Scale: Buildings
  • ENVD 3134 – History & Theory of Environmental Design Medium Scale: Precincts
  • GEEN 1100/CHEN 1000 — Social Impact of Technology/Creative Technology
  • GEEN 3300 — Sustainability Ethics and Practice
  • INFO 3101 — History of Information, Science and Society
  • MCDB 3330 — Evolution and Creationism
  • MDST 4111 — Crime, Media and Contemporary Culture
  • MUEL/MUSC 3642 — History of Jazz
  • MUEL 3892 — Music and Space
  • MUEL/MUSC 2772 — World Musics: Asia and Oceania
  • MUEL/MUSC 2782 — World Musics: Africa, Europe, and the Americas
  • MUSC 1802 — Introduction to Musical Styles and Ideas
  • MUSC 3802 — History of Music 1
  • MUSC 3812 — History of Music 2
  • NRLN 3500 — Construction of Knowledge in the Fields
  • PHYS 3000 — Science and Public Policy
  • PRLC 3800 — Global Inquiry for 21st Century Leadership
  • PRLC 3810 — Global Issues in Leadership
  • PSYC 1001 — General Psychology
  • STAT 4700 — Philosophy of Statistics
  • WRTG 1250 — Advanced First-Year Writing and Rhetoric
  • WRTG 3020 [Irish Odysseys: Writing in Ireland] topic only, can apply as HSS course or as writing course, but not both
 

Nxcoupe

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Nobody's going to give you a full-blown job as an engineer without a degree. That's why I paid for and encouraged my son to get his BS in Mechanical Engineering. Now he has his first real engineering job with a great salary and benefits. My problem is with the universities. They make you take and pay for so many classes that are useless in any field of study.

Look at some of the classes you can take for your humanities and social science requirements.

  • ARCH 3114 — History and Theory of Architecture 1
  • ARCH 3214 — History and Theory of Architecture 2
  • ARCH 4010 — Architectural Appreciation and Design
  • ASEN 3036 — Introduction to Human Spaceflight
  • ASEN 3046 — Humans in Aviation
  • ASIA 4500 — Urban Asia: Tradition, Modernity, Challenges
  • ASTR 2000 — Ancient Astronomies of the World
  • ATLS 2000 — The Meaning of Information Technology
  • ATLS 4244 — Empathy and Technology
  • CMCI 3000 — Special Topics in CMCI [Space Age Kids/Media/Info]
  • COEN 2050 — Engineering Leadership Gateway
  • COEN 3050 — Complex Challenges in Leadership
  • CSCI 4250/5250 — Computer Science: The Canon
  • CVEN 2837 — Special Topics: Intro to Global Engineering
  • ECEN 3070 — Edges of Science
  • EDUC 2020 — Step 1: Inquiry Approaches to Teaching
  • EDUC 4023 — Differentiating Instruction in Diverse Secondary Classrooms
  • EDUC 4050 — Knowledge and Learning in Mathematics and Science
  • EMEN 4830 — Special Topics: Designing for DEI in Engineering (summer 2021 and spring 2022)
  • EMEN 4055 — Designing for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion in Engineering (summer 2022 and onwards)
  • ENGL 2006 — American Comics and Graphic Novels: An Ambivalent Art
  • ENGL 4106 — Literary Study with Data Science
  • ENVD 2001 — Social Factors in Environmental Design
  • ENVD 3009 — Special Topics in Environmental Design [Layers of Rome]
  • ENVD 3114 – History & Theory of Environmental Design Small Scale: Buildings
  • ENVD 3134 – History & Theory of Environmental Design Medium Scale: Precincts
  • GEEN 1100/CHEN 1000 — Social Impact of Technology/Creative Technology
  • GEEN 3300 — Sustainability Ethics and Practice
  • INFO 3101 — History of Information, Science and Society
  • MCDB 3330 — Evolution and Creationism
  • MDST 4111 — Crime, Media and Contemporary Culture
  • MUEL/MUSC 3642 — History of Jazz
  • MUEL 3892 — Music and Space
  • MUEL/MUSC 2772 — World Musics: Asia and Oceania
  • MUEL/MUSC 2782 — World Musics: Africa, Europe, and the Americas
  • MUSC 1802 — Introduction to Musical Styles and Ideas
  • MUSC 3802 — History of Music 1
  • MUSC 3812 — History of Music 2
  • NRLN 3500 — Construction of Knowledge in the Fields
  • PHYS 3000 — Science and Public Policy
  • PRLC 3800 — Global Inquiry for 21st Century Leadership
  • PRLC 3810 — Global Issues in Leadership
  • PSYC 1001 — General Psychology
  • STAT 4700 — Philosophy of Statistics
  • WRTG 1250 — Advanced First-Year Writing and Rhetoric
  • WRTG 3020 [Irish Odysseys: Writing in Ireland] topic only, can apply as HSS course or as writing course, but not both
Don't forget Gender Studies or Critical Race Theory.
 

Ron H

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Seemed to blossom during my HS years about all the hoopla of going to college. This was the late 60’s early 70’s. Anything less than a 4-year was looked down on. Conversely, at the time we still had stellar shop classes, modern stuff, kept clean. I saw this severely decline not many years later as it would turn out when working with dozens of school districts as part of the work I did. Ancient machinery, poorly maintained, pathetic housekeeping, and some of the worst safety hazards I’d seen. Budget cuts. Some of the instructors gave a rip likely always being on the short end of the stick. And a large company I worked for right around the time that Japan was killing the USA with durable goods (machines/cars) cut their long-pristine apprenticeship program. One of the 1st things gutted to stay ‘competitive’. Hell, even the company president of this 2000 employee operation started as an apprentice. We reap what we sow, as boomers retire with few to take their place knowing the trades!

I worked at a machine shop starting jr year HS. Stayed there after graduating for a couple years before going to tech-school, while still working there part time. My boss, co-owner taught me TONS about running a business doing anything that needed doing running machines, repairing them, QC, IC, ordering materials/tooling, mill & drill foreman, and hopping in the truck to pickup/deliver. Whatever needed ‘doing’. Eventually obtained my associate degree and had three employers wanting to hire me before I graduated. I had already enrolled in a college to snag a BS; but one offer was too attractive to pass. Years later, after aspiring to a VP position overseeing 38 branches in my field of work. The company was sold. Got a great severance, but at 45, needed to ahh, keep working.

One company interested in hiring me for a senior position, took me out for a lunch interview and all wonderful until they caught I didn’t have a BS, despite acquiring two professional designations being more than equivalent to an extra two-years of college and near 20 years of related experience.

Lol! I asked them to give me a few minutes to explain what I had learned post-HS, compared with those who went right to college. They said they would have to get back to me as their company was staunch with a BS degree. The pause was actually a gift as it gave me time to decide to start my own biz. They did offer me the job; but said no thanks. Did pretty well for the next 21 years devoid of corporate politics that was the biggest bonus.
 

mopar 3 B

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You know, I've heard that from so many people, especially technicians who called me a 'college idiot', now that I show up to bail their asses out of a jamb, they don't say that anymore. I have an excellent work ethic, I lose sleep over problems until I resolve them and I lift up my coworkers every chance I can. I never look down on someone because they have less education than I do. My father dropped out of school at 13 during the depression era in the 30s so he could work on river tugboats, later he got his ged and a bachelor's equivalent and taught Vocational School. Smartest, most honest man I ever met.
After 30 years working as an engineering tech you are more the exception that the norm.
 

GTX JOHN

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Well my experience differs but it was a long time ago.
I received my MBA @ 21 years old after undergrad degrees
in Econ and Acct. I never held a job after that except for running
my own businesses. The purpose of my education in the Calif,
University System was specifically to prepare to be a business
owner (Initially Used Car Dealership Owner). I became a Millioniare
in my Twenties and in Eight Figures Ten or Fifteen years after that through
the ownership of multiple retail and private capital business.

I would not have succeeded without my training in business and if
I was not blessed to live in the USA the land of Opportunities!!
Even after multiple Cancer Surgeries and in my mid 70's = I often
put in 12 Hour long days.

I am not a particularly intelligent guy - But well educated and have a lot of
common sense.

I was always Focused and Motivated in Life and at the Race Track and full preparing at both of them!!



Just my .02 worth = Your Mileage will Vary.

Google: John Irving Drag Racer
If you would like.
 
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mopar 3 B

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Well my experience differs but it was a long time ago.
I received my MBA @ 21 years old after undergrad degrees
in Econ and Acct. I never held a job after that except for running
my own businesses. The purpose of my education in the Calif,
University System was specifically to prepare to be a business
owner (Initially Used Car Dealership Owner). I became a Millioniare
in my Twenties and in Eight Figures Ten or Fifteen years after that through
the ownership of multiple retail and private capital business.

I would not have succeeded without my training in business and if
I was not blessed to live in the USA the land of Opportunities!!
Even after multiple Cancer Surgeries and in my mid 70's = I often
put in 12 Hour long days.

I am not a particularly intelligent guy - But well educated and have a lot of
common sense.


Just my .02 worth = Your Mileage will Vary.
It takes more than a piece of paper and you know it. Some people have it and others don't. It is called drive and willingness to take chances.
But you have hit upon part of the problem in this country. There is more to sucess than money and material wealth. It helps but if there is no happiness where is the real wealth? Family, friends and relationships.
 

SteveSS

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Get that Charger running yet?
It was in the local race shop for months and I got it Friday. I drove it less than 100 miles and it died again. Same problem as always. Sputtering then dying. I had it towed back to the shop this morning. I've been working on my daughter's BumbleBee Camaro and the GTO race car. I've been doing some stuff with the '97 Camaro SS. I've been slowly gathering parts for the '70 Coronet 500. Looking for a driver's door and new seat foam for the bucket/buddy seat interior.
 

1STMP

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I guess I was one of a very few that managed
to evade the exorbitant debt. I settled for a
associates degree in Mechanical Design thru
a small town community College. A part time
job kept me solvent. Lots of rice and beans.
Learned drafting on a table with a t-square
and triangles long before the CAD systems
of today.
Started out as a 20 year old drawing house
plans for local home builder. $500/month
paid the bills.
Thru the years, the jobs seemed to elevate
in complexity and skill level. Civil, Structural,
Mechanical drafting in progressive steps
that included internal company training
on various CAD systems. Unigraphics, Pro-E,
SolidWorks. In Pro-E alone I've racked up
more than 50,000 hrs.
My last job before retirement was the most
challenging as I was dealing with deadlines
and a desire to insure my son's safety.
He joined the army.
The Iraq War left our military relying on older
technology, especially when it came to
combat situated vehicles.
I was part of the team that designed and
built these:
x_fmtv_27609.jpg
After retirement, I still pursue my life's long
passion, and apply what I've learned over
the years, to my personal projects.
image.png




20190620_165918.jpg
image005-1.jpg
One doesn't need a top level degree if the
drive is there. If you truly love what you do
for a living.
It's understood that the higher the degree,
the higher the pay. My last year of gainful
employment netted $160,000, but it took
47 years to get there.
In the mean time, I got married, raised two
kids, bought and sold 5 houses, and more
than 20 vehicles.
My only regret....not building a Mopar
until that final project.
 
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