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Installing new Borgeson Steering Gear conversion this afternoon

65RoadRacer

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For us early Moparians with the heavy Power Steering box, Borgeson now makes a conversion box (from a Jeep) to fit our cars. You can get the gear from Borgeson or from Bergman Auto Craft, and Bergman also makes the steering column adapter and the fittings for the pressure hose to complete the conversion.

We're doing a full write up on the install afterwards, and will be testing the unit out this weekend at Willow Springs Raceway. The gear is about 13 pounds lighter, and is a quicker 14:1 ratio giving the car a modern power steering feel - firmer than the factory units.

Will let you all know how the install went if you're interested.
Here's a comparison of the two gears:
borg-strggr.jpg
 
Thanks. I'll be interested to know what your impressions are of how it affects the handling of your car.
 
I will let you all know. There are two gears available: early and late, but they both fit in the same spot and are set up to fit the factory K-member. I went with later, which has the larger 1-1/4" pitman shaft, I'm also upgrading to the later 11/16" tie rod ends and solid sleeves.

Will post results later tonight after the install, and again Sunday after racing. Thanks!
 
..interested. I just rebuilt mine for the 69 Bee. 40lbs of beat-down......
 
Looking forward reading the test results! :glasses1:

My power steering is pretty awful you know.....
 
Mopar action just did a story on this. Actually 2 stories...one was in April and the lastest one is in their October mag. The April one covered the installation but it required cutting the steering shaft, welding on a...uh..what!?? But the latest addition talks about the Bergman adapter that makes this setup a 100% true bolt in and reversible affair. Apparently the new box is waaaaaaaay tighter and percise than the old mope units but would like to hear what you find..although sadly I have manual steering.
 
Thanx. This looks good....how bout giving details of parts and sources when you are satisfied. I am really looking forward to the results. I did a similiar quick ratio box swap on my 65 el camino and it was like night and day.
 
Man ! !... How About That Header Clearance !
 
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We installed the gear last night, and as you might suspect everything wasn't hunky dory, but it was all fixable.

The coupler kit we got from Bergman Auto Craft was nice, the powdercoat was great. We polished the inside of the coupler a little to get it smooth. Coupler kits are always a pain, and we had to use parts from my old one, parts from the new kit, and parts we had. I ran into this the last time I rebuilt my column, the single spring clip has always been a problem, so I used my old spring clips then, like we did last night. The kit was included with Bergman's coupler, but I could tell that it wasn't his own kit, but a packaged kit that someone else puts together. I have gotten the same kit before and had problems even though the person who puts the kit together swore that it worked for "all early Mopars". It didn't.

The gear we got from Borgeson is the same that Bergman sells, Borgeson has remedied their fitment issues with regards to the brackets that are welded on. The housing needed a little more grinding on the housing, not much, but in order to get it to mount flush it was necessary. We could see where this was done before, but it needed a little more work. Otherwise, it was so easy to install and so much lighter that the tech didn't mind that he had to take it out a couple of times for modifications before he was comfortable with it.

The fittings that we got from Bergman Auto Craft were great, they provide the fittings for your standard pressure hose (early or late) to fit the new box, and also provided AN fittings if you want to run -6 line and fittings - which we will do later when we add a hydraboost unit. We have a '65 with a Thompson pump, with the larger 5/8" return hose, but we installed a later steering gear with a larger sector shaft, and it's important to remember that Bergman has fittings for your application, but you need to tell them what you're doing. our return fitting on the pump fit great, but since it's a later application I should have told him we were using the early pump with the larger return hose.

The alignment is getting done today, then I can really test it out. One thing I can tell you is that firm doesn't begin to describe it. It has a manual steering feel but it's not hard to turn. It's just much firmer, and the turning radius is tighter than before - went from 3.5 turns lock-to-lock and now have about 4, but a 90 degree turn is a one-hander now, where it was a two-hander before, meaning: the quicker ratio is evident.

We're racing this weekend, and I'll let you know how it feels on the track, and of course I'll do a full write up for the install and give you the link. (I'm and editor for an online publication - so if it's okay to post the link I will when the article goes live.)

Oh.. and header clearance? LOTS of it now!
 
Awesome! Quick question, as my car is 2 hrs away right now. Anybody know which kit to get for my 71 RR with manual steering? I assume cutting the shaft down will work on this, correct? Thanks. This was gonna be my next question for my rebuild! Thanks again! Chris
 
65RoadRacer would love to see some pics ~ also i just did a hydroboost conversion on my 65 and absolutely love it ! if you are still looking for a unit check these guys out, http://www.tallonhydraulics.com/sto...ath=48&zenid=464cca708486e38e44f5e3f728ba0d1c

what day are you going too willow springs raceway, i live about 30 minutes from there, maybe ill stop by, so you could check out the hydroboost !

Cool, that would be awesome! We're going to be there this Saturday, arriving at 8 am and racing most of the day. I'd definitely like to check it out if you don't mind.

I don't want to spoil the article, but here are a couple of pics showing the difference in size and header clearance.borgstrggr.jpgfactstrggr.jpg

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Awesome! Quick question, as my car is 2 hrs away right now. Anybody know which kit to get for my 71 RR with manual steering? I assume cutting the shaft down will work on this, correct? Thanks. This was gonna be my next question for my rebuild! Thanks again! Chris
Contact Bergman Auto Craft since they offer everything you need. The early kit fits up to '72, and from what Borgeson says "this kit fits both power and manual steering". The Bergman adapter is long enough that it should work, but check with them to be sure. The Borgeson coupler requires cutting whether you have manual or power, but the Bergman couple might work without cutting.

I went with later, but I'm updating my entire suspension so if you're going for direct then get the early, but they can help you out.
 
Mopar action just did a story on this. Actually 2 stories...one was in April and the lastest one is in their October mag. The April one covered the installation but it required cutting the steering shaft, welding on a...uh..what!?? But the latest addition talks about the Bergman adapter that makes this setup a 100% true bolt in and reversible affair. Apparently the new box is waaaaaaaay tighter and percise than the old mope units but would like to hear what you find..although sadly I have manual steering.

I have read one article and was disappointed by the fact that they tell you that you can install it, tell you that they did install it, and tell you that all the parts are exactly what you need. We intend to point out the highs and lows, offer up options and what to look out for, and for those who want to add a later box to an early car like we did, what you need to look for and what needs to be changed. We will also add to our article feedback on how well it performs both on the street and at the racetrack.

It's one thing to say, "we installed it" but something entirely different to say, "we installed one and this is what we found, and how it performed." I hope our article is far more informative and that it helps people to not only make the decision to install one, but what questions to ask and what might become a problem if you're not aware of what to look for.

It's not to say that the other article wasn't good, but there's more to it than just buying a couple of kits, and I hope I can provide good feedback to everyone.
 
Excellent! Thank-you. I have the firm feel stage II kit in mine with the quick ratio idler and pitman and am curious how the Bergman setup will compare. Have you driven a firm feel setup as well?
 
Are you road racing that 65 Belvedere with a Poly?!?! Good on you!! I'm building a 63 Fury ragtop in a ProTouring mode (396 ci Poly). I was going to send my power steering box to Firm Feel to upgrade, but I like what you are doing more for that car. I may just take the '63 power box and put it on my 65 Belvedere I wagon to replace the manual box.
 
Excellent! Thank-you. I have the firm feel stage II kit in mine with the quick ratio idler and pitman and am curious how the Bergman setup will compare. Have you driven a firm feel setup as well?
I haven't driven the FF setup, so I am curious how firm it is over the stock PS box. I just got my car from the alignment shop today, and of course it poured rain on the way home...and it was dark... so it was nice to have such a firm grip on the road and firm steering. I'm liking this borgeson box already!

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Are you road racing that 65 Belvedere with a Poly?!?! Good on you!! I'm building a 63 Fury ragtop in a ProTouring mode (396 ci Poly). I was going to send my power steering box to Firm Feel to upgrade, but I like what you are doing more for that car. I may just take the '63 power box and put it on my 65 Belvedere I wagon to replace the manual box.

Yep... racing it with the Poly. Unfortunately, not enough horsepower and I need to go faster so the plans are for a 408 stroker by next spring (hopefully).
 
The FF setup has stage I, II, and III options with III being the firmest. Stage I is described as the cop car setup and is slightly firmer than stock. Dennis H has stage I in his 68 coronet and it drives very nice. I have stage II and it is much firmer than stock and at slow speeds less than 10mph it feels a bit heavy, but in most street or freeway driving it feels good. Stage III is supposed to be firmer still. I hear some like it on the street, but on average stage III may be too much unless racing, but maybe still easier to steer than manual, I'm not sure.

I also use my 2000 honda civic as a benchmark, although that suspension is entirely different. I like the way the steering is power assist, but it doesn't feel like full on power where you could pinky finger it. The stage I on our cars feels looser than that to me and the stage II firmer. That's why this borage son box interests me because I imagine it's more like a modern car. By the way, the quick ratio idler and pitman made a HUGE difference in steering response and it is much better to me than without them.

I also swapped in new bearing couplers on the engine side of the steering column and cabin side. This reduced some worn slop as we'll.

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65 road racer, Dennis h will be at the woodland park fall fling. It's A sun fire yellow 68 coronet. Maybe you guys can drive each other's cars to compare. Wish I was going too and we could compare three different setups.
 
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