Is this normal or did my timing chain slip ?

1968 -1970 Mopars

  1. pearljam724

    pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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    I removed timing chain cover on small block 360 to drill out a broken power steering bracket bolt. My timing chain is fairly tight on left (passénger side). Moves about 1/4 inch. The right is very sloppy. Moves left to right about 1.5 inches. There is absolutely no wear on the teeth top and bottom. No noticeably noises when it was running before tear down. I bought the car back in November. Someone else installed an aftermarket cam. The chain looks new, but that’s hard to decipher. I assume it isn’t old based that there isn’t one speck of rust or heated on grime. So, I honestly don’t know how old it is. Please watch video.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  2. Curiousyellow71

    Curiousyellow71 Well-Known Member

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    That's not bad enough to slip yet...it is showing a bunch of wear already though...imo. I think the chains are not as good a quality as they used to be, and don't last like they used too. The camshaft is probably retarded already several degrees with that much wear...they are pretty tight when they are new.
    Recently checked a 10,000 mile double roller while degreeing in a cam...the chain had 8 degrees of wear already. Not sure who has the best chain kits now. Maybe someone else has found a brand that lives?

    It is always tighter on the side it pulls from .
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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    • pearljam724

      pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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      Thank you, my friend. The way I look at it. It would be stupid not to change it now. That was my next question, who makes a descent one ? Manufacturers to stay away from ? I believe, it’s stretched to the point it’s a little sloppy. But, didn’t cause a problem. I had some confusing timing issues a few months ago. The engine would only run its best severely retard. I messed with it and retimed it a dozen times and never could get it to run best anywhere near manufacturer suggestions. I’m thinking now that it’s perhaps related. It runs good. Not much engine noise.
       
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      • Curiousyellow71

        Curiousyellow71 Well-Known Member

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        If you go to rockauto.com you can see all the different types and companies and prices they list that make chains or chain and gear sets. Cloyes use to be a good brand and they are a little more expensive. Unfortunately, I think all chains are made oversea's now...that is my hunch anyway..and I don't think the chains are as hard as 20 years ago meaning more wear sooner. A double roller is harder for the chain to jump then the stock style like what is in your engine...that is why they are typically used in HD and performance applications. It is what I would use. I don't think any of the stock style chains last.
        It is never a good sign with the chain starts to ride up the sprocket teeth because its stretched like you showed in your video. Definitely replace.
         
        Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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        • pearljam724

          pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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          That’s exactly what I’m thinking. I talked to a family member that is very good with cars this evening. He said same thing about Cloyes. Hard to tell what chain was installed being I didn’t do it. Could have been a chain made of cheap China metal and it stretched too much. That’s only my theory. I’m not an engine builder. But, I enjoy fixing stuff and have a good understanding. But, I need advice because I haven’t wrenched on cars every day of my life. You guys are a huge help and I appreciate it.
           
        • thomas lauber

          thomas lauber Member

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          good idea is to use timing chain guide plate from magnum small block when using double roller chain
           
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          • pearljam724

            pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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            What does it do ? So, I have a stock like chain ? What the deal with a double roller ? Chain twice as thick, prevents stretching ?
             
          • Curiousyellow71

            Curiousyellow71 Well-Known Member

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            The chain like you have have a wide gear and there is only 2 sidebar links on the chain(front/ back) Double roller...Picture 2 narrow sprockets with a gap in between them. The gap between them allows for 2 more sidebars to keep the chain tight on the sprocket for a total of 4 links (front,middle,middle,back). Its stronger.

            The magnum tensioner doesn't let the chain whip. Every time it moves back and forth it will cause a little more wear. It also keeps the timing more steady and will likely help it last a long, long time, most newer engine have them. You don`t have to add the tensioner but they are only around 30 bucks. The double roller and magnum tensioner would likely outlast the vehicle...you can see the difference in the chains in the pictures when your shopping.
             
            Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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            • Darter6

              Darter6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              Yep, What CY71 said above. Use the chain tensioner. Chrysler started using them on the small blocks in the 90's. I didn't put one in my truck's 318 but now I wish I did. I did put one on my 63's 1970 318.
               
            • 69Bee

              69Bee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              Cloyes double roller C3028 set, the timing chain is made in USA, crank gear is too. I have seen the cam gear made in Taiwan though. I tried to use the tensioner assy on the last SB Mopar 408 (360) I just finished, and could not for the life of me get the damn chain past the tensioner rubbing block. I gave up, and just used the chain. The pulling side (driver) should be tight, and the pass side will have a bit of slack. In my experience, the OEM link belt type of TC is tighter.
               
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              • Cranky

                Cranky Banned Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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                I've noticed chain stretch after several hundred miles even 30 years ago. It may be worse now than before but it surprised me how much a Cloyes chain stretched after a short run even back than. And I would for sure replace that stock type chain with with a double roller like already mentioned. People used to smack talk me for advancing the cam 4 degrees on most all of my builds saying there was no need in it. Uh, I think you just proved there is a need!
                 
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                • pearljam724

                  pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                  That’s a very good point.
                   
                • Fran Blacker

                  Fran Blacker FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  The chain stretch may be causing your power problem by retarding your cam? Maybe look at your cam lobes while your at it. Mo.
                   
                • pearljam724

                  pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                  I couldn’t agree more, Fran. I think your exactly right. I’ve looked at, adjusted and addressed everything multiple times related to that. I’m pretty sure it needs replaced.
                  I have the intake off now, the valve train is all in mint condition. Cam lobes look new and not slightest worn.
                  I think it would be ok left on for another 5k miles. But, I also feel it needs replaced. So, now is a good time.
                   
                  Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
                • Cranky

                  Cranky Banned Staff Member FBBO Gold Member

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                  Do you know the details of the cam?
                   
                • pearljam724

                  pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                  No, In reference to which one was put in. A local long time engine builder told me you can remove the plug on firewall end there is a stamping on all cams. I’m told you can look that part number stamping up to find out. But, that plug is in the bell housing. Therefore, I’m not going that far to find out. I’m buying a new chain. I believe this one is ok. A little stretched, but it’s ok. I believe it’s drastically affecting the timing though. So, being it’s only 40 bucks and I have the cover off. I’m going to pick a Cloyes double roller up tonight and put it on.
                   
                • oldkimmer

                  oldkimmer Well-Known Member

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                  Best thing u can do to prevent premature chain wear is to soak the chain in a bucket of oil for at least an hour b4 assambly. Kim
                   
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                  • pearljam724

                    pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                    I ll take that advice and certainly do it. Thank you.
                     
                  • Darter6

                    Darter6 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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                    69 bee I agree. Installing the tensioner is a bit frustrating. I fought it for awhile before getting it on correctly. :BangHead:
                     
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                    • pearljam724

                      pearljam724 Well-Known Member

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                      New one, Cloyes double roller. It’s a little tighter than the one I took off and it was actually ok I think. I can’t match the part number, but I think the one I took off was a Comp Cam. Chain says made in USA. I just wanted to avoid putting the cover back on, the whole 9 yards and finding out I should have changed it. Regardless, it’s a better made chain I believe and a lesson learned.
                       
                      Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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