Lets talk about roller cams for stroked big blocks!

[Kern Dog]

I've ran a few different cams in my 440/493. All have been flat tappet style, two were hydraulic while the other 2 have been solid. I don't race the car on the dragstrip but I do enjoy some spirited street driving.
I'm at 10.0 to 1 compression with ported Edelbrock heads, 2 inch headers, the Performer RPM intake and a Demon 850 vacuum secondary carburetor. I have the Mopar Performance 528 solid cam and am using 1.6 roller tipped rocker arms.
I've been slow to finish but am trying to add A/C back to this car. It is an original A/C car but I I went with a Classic Auto Air setup to save weight and to have an all electric system. The kit comes with the small Sanden compressor.
I keep hearing about how roller camshafts can give a nice increase in torque without losing street driveability. I want to drive the car more...I love the car but keep finding excuses to drive something else. I am not disappointed in the performance of the car as it is now, I just wondered what I might gain. I am fine with adjusting valve lash so a solid roller cam is fine. I suspect the lifters for a solid roller setup are probably cheaper than hydraulics. I thought I remember hearing of troubles with hydraulic roller cams that idle a lot...I don't recall the specifics.
I have 3.55 gears and a 28" tire. Soon I plan to swap from my 727 to a 5 speed kit from Silver Sport Overdrives. Currently I have an 11" converter that performs great with this cam.
What is your combo? Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Frankb]

I have a 440/494 4 speed, 355 gear in my GTX. Cam is a Comp hydraulic roller with 242 I 248 E with .589 I and .595 E lift. Lobe center is 110 and its installed at 106. Proform 850 DP, Holley SD intake, Eddy heads with some mild port work and good valve job. Don't remember rocker arm ration. Engine is at 9.7 : 1. MSD probillet distributer. Engine idles well, sounds tough and is a blast to drive. The drivability of a hyd roller is where it shines. Completed this engine in 2011 and has run perfect ever since. In my opinion if you are going to drive the car then a hyd roller is the way to go. Just finished a 400/511 for another project (not in car yet) and it has a hyd roller also.
Frank

 

[zyzzyx]

The only thing I have had experience with are the rollers in a race engine, but I understand that
the ramps on the roller cams can open the intake valve a lot faster because the roller can follow
the cam quicker then a flat tappet. That's one of the reasons Mopar came out with the "Battelship"
lifters that had to be installed from the bottom before the cam was installed. It was better, but
it couldn't deal with increased spring pressure that rollers are able to deal with. By opening the
Intake valves faster, sooner, more low end torque is realized. I'd love to run a roller on the street,
but I'm afraid that while I was cruising around town, the parts would be coming apart scattering
debris all over my engine before I realized it. Roller cam profiles can look pretty close to a flat tappet
cam, or they can look pretty radical. Kind of like those piano's that play themselves with music
written on a C.D. If you watch the keyboard as the music is playing, you'll see that no human
being could play that music the same because you'd have to have ten fingers on each hand!
It sounds good, but we don't have the geometry.

 

[cryplydog]

Kern, how often do you run your engine out to 5600 rpm or so?

 

[Kern Dog]

When I'm getting with it, I'll run it up to about 6000....It seems to keep pulling fine but I upshift just to keep the parts inside the block!
Another reason that I am interested in a roller cam is to reduce the risk of cam or lifter failure.

 

[gkent]

I suspect the lifters are probably cheaper than hydraulics.

Well you got that totally wrong !!!

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

If I had it to do over I would go solid roller instead of hyd. in mine. Worst part about a roller cam is the cost. $350 for the cam and then good quality solid roller lifters are around a grand for a set. Isky red zone are the ones I keep coming up with when reading about the best lifter that will survive in regular street use. Plus, you have to set end play and buy different push rods. And also a 3 bolt timing set unless you already have that. Oh and different valve springs will be needed.

For me the only reason I would have gone solid roller instead of hyd. is due to lifter bore clearances and oil pressure. It’s fine but not the greatest at idle. Also solid roller lifters are lighter than hyd rollers.

 

[Kern Dog]

Maybe I didn't spell it out correctly:
I meant to say that a set of solid roller lifters are probably cheaper that a set of hydraulic roller lifters.

 

[gkent]

Isky red zone are the ones I keep coming up with when reading about the best lifter that will survive in regular street use.

You might want to talk to an Isky rep or a rep from any other cam and lifter manufacturer about this. The story I got from a Comp rep (they also make bushed roller lifters) is that you want to avoid these like the plague for street use. The bushing cannot take the abuse of street driving whereas the standard needle bearings can. Red Zones and similar are "race only" pieces.

 

[BLK 68 R/T]

You might want to talk to an Isky rep or a rep from any other cam and lifter manufacturer about this. The story I got from a Comp rep (they also make bushed roller lifters) is that you want to avoid these like the plague for street use. The bushing cannot take the abuse of street driving whereas the standard needle bearings can. Red Zones and similar are "race only" pieces.

Just to clarify - the red zone max endurance ez roll ones is what I’m referring to. Is this the same one you are thinking of? Gonna go do some more reading tonight I guess

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

I have the comp http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Endure X'-0.aspx in my blown street driven hemii.
I had a **** experience with ISKY and will NEVER use their product.
In the 15 years and and over 20 K miles I have rebuilt the lifters 3 times for PM.You also have the option of PR oiling which is a great thing on wedge engines as they tend to burn the cups.
I sent oil up the exhaust only on the hemi.If you do send oil up the pushrods restricters are needed as you will loose 15 lbs of OP without restricting the oil.You can have the restricters done by the PR company of your choice.I like Manton......

 

[dvw]

You might want to talk to an Isky rep or a rep from any other cam and lifter manufacturer about this. The story I got from a Comp rep (they also make bushed roller lifters) is that you want to avoid these like the plague for street use. The bushing cannot take the abuse of street driving whereas the standard needle bearings can. Red Zones and similar are "race only" pieces.

With a solid roller I'd run bushed lifters before a needle bearing everytime. Ive run Comp needle bearing and Isky bushed. The iskys are way more durable. Look at the load imparted on a needle during the lash cycle. The needles crash the axle assy and brinnel it. Next thing you know the shaft and bearing are loose and ready to beat the cam to death. Solid rollers on the street are risky. For street and lower rpm the hydraulic roller wins hands down. To be truthful a flat tappet solid will perform very well. Contact Dwayne at Porter Racing Heads.
Doug

 

[69roadr]

I have a roller cam in my 69 383 6000 RPM is normal

 

[rumblefish360]

The needles crash the axle assy and brinnel it.

And this you know because you have game the lifter apart, inspected it and determined the tool steel axle is “brinneled?”
(Spelling?)

 

[dvw]

And this you know because you have game the lifter apart, inspected it and determined the tool steel axle is “brinneled?”
(Spelling?)

Yes, i checked. Got tired of pulling them out every season for rebuild.That's why I went to the bushed lifter. Granted my cam is big. 285/[email protected]". It failed a Comp needle tappet in 150 passes. Lash checked every 20-25 passes. Since going to the bushed tappet it's gone 375 passes. Lash never changes more than .001" . Anf thats only 1 or 2 tapperts. Google Drag Week. There's a real test of tappets. Tappet failure is a big issue for those guys.
Doug

 

[Derwud]

I am running a Huge Crane Hyd Roller in my 540. I hope to put some miles on it this summer.. So far, I LOVE IT!!

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

I wouldn’t expect any big gains with that combo. A good solid FT will get the job done. That’s all I run in my 511 and it does ok.

 

[rumblefish360]

@dvw Then I respectfully suggest that your reply is out of bounds a bit because it is not a street grind cam. While I don’t know what Kern Dog is looking for, re reading his posts, build parts and listed cam, you have a race cam and he is running the street and looking at a lot smaller of a cam. A good bit lower on the stress level , mechanically speaking. And via that, ones self. LOL!!

What I do find that is pertinent is the lifters used and there longevity under the severe conditions. If there standing up in your race engine, this is a good start point. The mention of the guys that do “Drag Week” is a GREAT idea. These are nothing more than race engines taking a major beating on the street. (Good thinking!)

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, bushing the lifter bores is a good idea on any serious mechanical cammed high powered engine. With a cam like you have there (A monster for the street)
that would be a for certain move to make. I’ll be going there with a cam 36*’s & .250 in lift smaller.

Do you street drive this monster cam for a few thousand miles a year? Or just drag race it?

@Kern Dog Are you looking to stay in the same rpm band as you are now? Make a noticeable increase power?

To be honest about the matter, you can grab a nice upgraded solid cam and make really good and close to roller cam power without the BIG expense. Longevity shouldn’t be an issue with good proper oil and frequent oil and quality filter changes.

I’m not crazy about race or race like cams on the street with low rpm useage. This is where a lot of failures come in. High rpm/stress components performing low rpm street duty stop and go in various weather conditions now makes for high stress on the parts.

Yea. It is possible to make it live and for a long time (A relative term) on the street.

 

[Hemirunner]

Yes, i checked. Got tired of pulling them out every season for rebuild.That's why I went to the bushed lifter. Granted my cam is big. 285/[email protected]". It failed a Comp needle tappet in 150 passes. Lash checked every 20-25 passes. Since going to the bushed tappet it's gone 375 passes. Lash never changes more than .001" . Anf thats only 1 or 2 tapperts. Google Drag Week. There's a real test of tappets. Tappet failure is a big issue for those guys.
Doug

I ran the same set of Comp 829’s for a decade including several Drag Weeks. I finally pulled them when I lost a rod bearing and got trash everywhere. Most roller lifter issues on street cars have a root cause that lies elsewhere. Poor oiling, wrong valve spring rate, too much pressure, too light of a pushrod, too aggressive of a lobe, etc. The advantage of a bushed lifter is the failure is recognizeable through lash and is usually not catastrophic. I have a set of bushed lifters in my new 540, but haven’t ran them yet. I’ll hold judgment until I get some personal experience.

 

[HEMI-ITIS]

Spring pressure over the nose is a huge factor here.I have been able to have the best of both worlds for many years.The actual goal for me is my legal limit of 8.50 at the track,change a pulley and put pump gas back in and hit all the local and not so local cruise ins.



Headed to the Bronx from Long Island