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Megasquirt EFI conversion

dpstark2

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I've been working toward EFI in my Charger for a while now- it's slow going, but I think in the end it will be worthwhile. I'm taking it one step at a time, and sometimes that step happens to be backwards... but anyway- I finally got all the power plumbed and installed the computer in the glovebox.

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Then I got all the wiring routed. Admittedly, a lot of it simply dead-ends right now. But I wanted an idea of how it would lay out. I grouped everything according it's final location, but most of it is just tucked up by the battery.

2012-08-19%252011.58.56.jpg


The only thing really connected right now is the MAP sensor and a wideband O2 sensor.

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The next step is to add some more sensors- air temp, coolant temp, and some type of rpm/tach signal. Stay tuned. I hope someone finds it all as interesting as I do. I'm happy to provide more info if anyone is interested.
 
Looking good.

How cost effective do you think it will be as compared to the FAST systems?

I helped a buddy put this on his 67 chevelle recently. Granted he only made 430 at the wheels with his old carb setup, but man the cold starts, hot starts and all around just like a different car now.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FST-30447-KIT/

But it did cost him $2170 with my summit pro shop discount.

And after 550-600hp Id think you would want more.

Dan
 
EXCELLENT PHOTOS! Thanks for sharing the progress on this project. I have a '68 Satellite with a 360 small block and 600cfm Edelbrock carb. I'm in the process of building a 451 big block and I have seriously been thinking about using F.A.S.T. EFI instead of a carb.

What brand EFI kit are you installing and what will it cost in the end? The only thing I'm not excited about is the $2K price tag of EFI vs 1/3 of that for the Quick Fuel carb I was going to get before.
 
Thanks!

This is a Megasquirt 3 EFI system with expansion board- it's an open source flexible EFI computer. You can see a lot more about it here. I bought it at DIYAutotune.com.

As far as cost, I have budgeted about $3k to go all out- sequential multiport, coil-on(near)-plug, etc. You can do something more basic for less than $2k. EFI is never cheap, what you are buying here versus FAST, Holley, MSD, is flexibility and upgradeability. This thing is truly flexible. It supports every option you can imagine. There are guys doing this thing all types of different fuels, forced induction, etc., and it works great once you tune it.

Of course, it is much less "packaged" than the... well... packages. You don't need to be an electrical engineer to do this (though I am) but some electronics knowledge is required. If you can wire a car, you can do it- but it's not a bolt on.

So like I said- I went this route for the flexibility and fun of it. Plus I get exactly what I want and room to grow. You can get 80% of the way there with a packaged system for a similar price if you want- but you're locked in to it.

I'll be posting updates, so if you want to let me shake out the bugs for you- feel free. Questions are welcome too.
 
By the way- any EFI that is tuned is a great thing- but I see little benefit with the throttle body types like FAST and MSD. Yeah, they work and they solve a lot of starting issues (maybe that's enough)... but it's still basically and electronic carburetor. You still have distribution issues, fuel suspension issues... No matter what you do, I'd go multi-port.
 
By the way- any EFI that is tuned is a great thing- but I see little benefit with the throttle body types like FAST and MSD. Yeah, they work and they solve a lot of starting issues (maybe that's enough)... but it's still basically and electronic carburetor. You still have distribution issues, fuel suspension issues... No matter what you do, I'd go multi-port.


I agree but I like the fact that with not too much work a factory style (say dual snorkel) or somewhat air cleaner can be used (modified) and not having to tap for injectors etc etc can also be another point of view on this.

Upgradeability, adaptability not so much, tho FAST is stepping up the plate.

Nothing preforms like direct port sequential admittedly.

Dan


PS Id love to see two turbos on your charger once you get your megasquirt sorted!!!
 
you guys are close by. Why don't you local people interested go ahead and PM me for directions to Meep-Meep's car show/pot luck BBQ/live band event in San Ramon sat. Aug. 25th. We need some more mopar representation! I was there last year and it was killer. This may be the last year he does it due to a probable shop move.
 
By the way- any EFI that is tuned is a great thing- but I see little benefit with the throttle body types like FAST and MSD. Yeah, they work and they solve a lot of starting issues (maybe that's enough)... but it's still basically and electronic carburetor. You still have distribution issues, fuel suspension issues... No matter what you do, I'd go multi-port.

Thanks for the honest opinion. I was considering multi-port, but I don't want to go crazy with too many mods. It took awhile to convince myself to switch from carb to EFI at all and I still haven't bought anything yet. I like the fact with the throttle body type systems that you can use the same intake as you do with a carb. I had planned on running the Eddy Performer RPM dual intake. The FAST rep recommended that to go with his "wet" system instead of a single plane like some people think works better. The F.A.S.T. system is also supposedly self tuning and claims that within 20 starts to calibrate itself for optimum performance. With the California fuel blends, the easy starting alone seems worth it to me. Would I see any noticeable driving performance increase with FAST or is it negligible?
 
So I only know what I know... I have no personal experience with FAST, though I've seen it and know a guy with it. He likes it a lot. It's on 472 hemi, which is a whole different beast. But regardless- if you want to "plug and play" FAST is probably best. If you want to make it yourself, have flexibility and upgradeability- I'd go Megasquirt if you're up to it.

The MS also does automatic tuning based on AFR. You have to put it in that mode and tell it to learn, but it does it. It's not full-time learning like some other systems, but I have some experience with something like that on my Harley- and they work. But they can "grow" out of control too.

From what I have read, even though EFI starts better than a carb, tuning starts is still the hardest part of an EFI tune. Mostly because you only get one shot per day, really. Once you've run the car, it's not the same until it's dead cold again. However, I know there's at least one guy with a 'Cuda, 440, and MS out there that has it sorted pretty well.

I also know a guy running MS on his Duster with a /6 for years, and it's day an night compared to any carb'd /6 I've ever seen. But even he got his starts "close" and left it there.

I have a tentative parts list if anyone is interested. It's hard, big parts- not the incidentals though...
 
you guys are close by. Why don't you local people interested go ahead and PM me for directions to Meep-Meep's car show/pot luck BBQ/live band event in San Ramon sat. Aug. 25th. We need some more mopar representation! I was there last year and it was killer. This may be the last year he does it due to a probable shop move.

If my wife will let me I'll be there. Lol
 
you guys are close by. Why don't you local people interested go ahead and PM me for directions to Meep-Meep's car show/pot luck BBQ/live band event in San Ramon sat. Aug. 25th. We need some more mopar representation! I was there last year and it was killer. This may be the last year he does it due to a probable shop move.


Ill be there the guy is basically my uncle.
 
Alright- yes, it's been a while. Progress is being made. The fuel tank is done. Here's is the modified tank:

2012-10-26%u0025252016.50.35.jpg

And here's the sump that fits into that hole:

2012-11-02%u0025252014.42.02.jpg

Not shown are some additional baffles we tacked around the top after the pump was installed. They can be knocked off easily enough if I have to disassemble it, but they should help keep fuel in the sump. I hope to get this tank installed in about a month. I still need to plumb the pressure line- the existing fuel line will serve as the return. Thanks go out to Meep-Meep for his help welding this beast up...

After one failed attempt, I did get a crank pulley with a trigger wheel going. I ended up with a set of March serpentine pulleys, a new power steering pump, and a short fan clutch. What a pain. But it's back together, the car runs nice and cool (about 5-10 degrees cooler with the March pulley and a 7 blade fan). The Saginaw pump (replaced a Federal) is a little firmer around town, about the same at freeway speeds.

The crank position sensor isn't 100% yet. There is an electrical noise issue that is almost certainly due to cheap plug wires. After some fiddling, I got it working, but while driving, it still loses sync every few minutes. That's unacceptable for doing ignition- not so bad, but not great, for just fuel. I hope to get some fancy plug wires and give that a go. There's also still some fine tuning to do regarding the sensor placement, which is not perfect. Thanks go out to Wilde Racing for way more time machining this stuff than I anticipated. Very nice job though.

One very cool note- with the Megasquirt tuning software (Tunerstudio MS), you can watch you crank trigger and actually see cylinder to cylinder variations in compression and combustion. They're small, but they could help diagnose issues. Also, driving it around and then looking at logs of AFR vs. RPM and such is pretty neat. Tells you what your carb is doing in the real world.

I don't currently have pictures of the pulleys and crank trigger. That's pretty hard to do with the stuff in the car, but I'll try to get one of the better ones up here later.
 
Excellent work ...

I tried to do a Megasquirt several years ago. I bought the kit that you need to solder together yourself only to find out the Dream Team was correct ... "Caucasians are just too damn tall" ... never did get it working correctly.
 
Progress is slow, but I wanted to post an update that I got my crank position sensor working- about 99%. The issue turned out to be (surprise) grounding and plug wires. I currently have some suppression wires in the car that I will be replacing with a Magnecor set long term. I made the mistake of grounding the oxygen sensor to a different location than the computer, and my MSD box had a questionable ground to begin with. I ended up grounding EVERYTHING directly to a cylinder head, which got things working. I do not know why sync is occasionally lost, but the error code is most likely due to signal issues, and not noise as before. I hope to investigate this weekend.

I also installed the modified gas tank. What a nightmare. Never, ever try to do this alone. I knew the fill tube and vent arrangement on 66-67 B bodies was awful, having dealt with it before, but man... what a pain. I hope to get the pressure line plumbed in the next couple weeks and get the electric fuel pump running soon. Once that's going, it's just a matter of time and money to get it injected.
 
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