Mercedes 560 SEC vs. Corvette C4 ZR-1

[Michael_]

Instead of posting this on the mercedes or corvette forum i figured it's better to ask here for unbiased advice.
Situation is the following...

We have a 1989 Mercedes 560SEC since about 8 years now.
It was used mainly as a weekend car, mostly highway miles and regularly serviced at mercedes benz.
Recently paid 5k at the dealership (mercedes benz), then switched to an independent shop specialised
in classic mercedes where another 5k was spent because mercedes did crappy work and was basically ripping us off.
Car got new camshafts, timing chain such as other stuff done.
After this major service we changed it over to historic plates which means cheap insurance & taxes.
The car is in turn key condition, i regularly drive it 500miles on the weekends with no problem.
Its not perfect though:
- Previous owner reimported the car from the united states back to stuttgart, germany (I live in germany. Good thing is this means lots of options & no rust)
- Has been repainted by the previous owner in germany (I was told pretty good but not perfect. Normal people seeing the car on the street wont notice)
- You can see some wear from the sun (I think the car came from california but need to check documentation again) mainly on the front seats and armrest
-- I got this "detailed/repaired" though and it looks good, but you can see it if you look close

Some pictures:
https://abload.de/img/img_1020w1krl.jpg
https://abload.de/img/img_1038x4kid.jpg
https://abload.de/img/img_0541bbj8u.jpg

So much for that.
We also have the 1969 Dodge Charger R/T that i bought last year and a 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (my very first car).
All those are pretty similar being luxury coupes with V8, RWD & automatic.
For my personal taste the mercedes is the least impressive of the bunch. Still a nice car, though.

Lately i'm craving for really good handling and acceleration, a real sports car.
If i had the money i would build a pro touring car out of the cutlass.
The level that i want (schwartz performance chassis & all) is WAY out of my (basically non existent) budget, though.

So the best i was able to find is the 1990 Corvette ZR-1. (It has to be a classic american car)
So now (for quite a while actually) i'm thinking about selling the 560SEC in order to buy a ZR-1.

I do not really want to sell the mercedes but i do not have the money & space for both.
I also think/fear its now or never looking at classic car prices lately and this one not yet exploded in value. (I think/fear it will soon)
Then there is politics and electric cars trying to kill the gasoline cars...

On the other hand i fear i could regret replacing the 560SEC with a ZR-1.
I know the ZR-1 is no imperial but i want to sit acceptably comfortable with enough legroom and not having backpain after every ride.
Note that i would take the ZR-1 for 500mile trips quite frequently.
That's what i want it for: Being able to cover wide distances as fast as possible on the german autobahn!

So what would you do?
Keep the mercedes or buy the ZR-1?
Also what is your opinion on comfort and future prices of both?

 

[70chall440]

I had a 96 LT4 and while they are fun cars the ZR1 is not going to be nearly as comfortable not to mention that maintaining the ZR1 is probably going to be a PIA. If you really want a Vette look at a C5 or C6 (depending on how much you want to spend). Parts are available, they ride and drive good and are comfortable.

 

[Michael_]

I had a 96 LT4 and while they are fun cars the ZR1 is not going to be nearly as comfortable

Are you saying the ZR1 is not nearly as comfortable as your 96 LT4 / a regular C4 or my 560 SEC?
The ZR-1 got FX3 Selective Ride Control so it would surprise me if its less comfortable than a regular C4?

 

[WileERobby]

Strictly based on the parameters you indicated: I would sell the Mercedes in an instant, and buy the nicest ZR-1 I could find.

 

[MIKESPOLARA]

Two totally different cars. You'll never be as comfortable in any Corvette compared to the 560. The Corvette is very much faster. I would only consider the 1993 and newer ZR-1's with more horsepower. They are fairly rare and somewhat expensive. C4's aren't on the most popular list here in the US neither is that Mercedes. How difficult will it be to fix that Vet in Germany? Harder then the Mercedes I imagine. Again not any similarities between the two cars, a 4-5 seater luxury car compared to a American sports car. For driving fun the Corvette is much better, comfort-good luck with that part. All Corvettes ride like buck boards
Supposedly the 1993 ZR-1 will do 180mph

 

[70chall440]

Are you saying the ZR1 is not nearly as comfortable as your 96 LT4 / a regular C4 or my 560 SEC?
The ZR-1 got FX3 Selective Ride Control so it would surprise me if its less comfortable than a regular C4?

No, I am saying that the ZR1 is not as comfortable as your Benz. That said, the ZR1 is collectable so there is that. Get the car you like.

 

[SteveSS]

In excellent condition, your Mercedes is worth $50K. It's gone up 20K in the last 10 years. Gone down a bit in the last year. I looked through the last few years on Hagerty's Bull Market list. The only Corvette I saw was a 1996 Grand Sport hardtop. You could get a 2002 (Last year) Trans Am WS6 or even better a black Firehawk with a 6 speed. Modify the LS1 with the ability to put it back to stock and you can be the true nasty American on the Autobahn. They are definitely increasing in value. Find a Pontiac G8 GXP if you want to be under the radar a bit. LS3 415 hp with a 6-speed manual. It even has a usable back seat.

A Chevrolet SS has the same engine and looks even less threatening.

 

[RemCharger]

I agree with all above. I've worked on some of all of this.
A buddy of mine just sold a really nice 2000 vette with 40 thou kms on it for 25 cad. That would be a much nicer and easier car to maintain.
The older zr1s .. probably too weird for way over there.
The Benz... your guys know how to work on them. But maybe it's even too old for that.
I'd go for a vette with an ls. But as stated, more buck-boardy.

 

[Michael_]

If you really want a Vette look at a C5 or C6 (depending on how much you want to spend).

The C5 vette and all other LS cars are already to new for my liking.
60s/70s us cars are my favorites. I'm already stretching it a lot with the 90 ZR-1 (Due to Budget)

I would only consider the 1993 and newer ZR-1's with more horsepower.

They had a facelift in 91 and i do not like it.
I would also like the pre 90 interior better but only the prototypes of the zr-1 still had that which are about 3x the money (that i do not have) IF you can find one.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rboBamqg/1988-chevrolet-corvette-zr-1-king-of-the-hill-prototype

That said i really like the look of the C4 bevor 91.

In excellent condition, your Mercedes is worth $50K. It's gone up 20K in the last 10 years.

I know i checked hagerty and local classifieds myself for both cars.
I'm not an expert in pricing cars but i think i should get 30k or maybe even more for mine. That should buy me a nice 90 ZR-1.

 

[Richard Cranium]

If you're regularly going on 500 mile trips, get yourself a Hellcat Dodge.

 

[Hey-O]

I've had a few friends that have owned one of these, talk about a great daily driver. As SteveSS said, looks even less threatening and way more comfortable and cheaper. You'd never believe how bad you're about to get you *** kicked when you pull up to this. Talk about sleeper. Hellcat, the mans on a budget, maybe 392.

 

[70chall440]

I can tell you the the C4s were not the best of cars, even the ZR1. I bought a 96 because it was the last year for the C4 and by all accounts the best year. The worst year was 84 and they varied in quality (improving) up until 96. IMO the early C4s (84-92) are not really good cars.

The ZR1 is more collectable than the Benz
The Benz is more comfortable than the ZR1
I think the Benz is probably easier to repair/get parts for

From your responses it seems you want the ZR1 and you are looking for some support on this forum. If you want it, get it but IMO I think as it relates to having a dependable comfortable driver I do not think the ZR1 is going to meet those objectives. Keep in mind that like any performance car, everyone who has owned it has beat on it some, doesn't mean its wore out or anything but over the years it does take a toll. I don't know how parts availability is in Germany for a ZR1 but I do know that parts for a Benz of pretty much any year are available especially in Germany.

 

[Budnicks]

C4s are at the bottom of the depreciation ladder right now
even the ZR1s (here anyway), can get them relatively cheap
(but are starting to climb now too)

what's the Merc/Benz 560 SEC worth there ?

I've driven both
I'd drive the C4 especially the ZR1 (magnetic/electronic shocks)
for a sportier feel
the Benz is a cushier ride, for sure, it's far more of a luxury minded car
(how much do they weight ? compared to the Vett)
unless it's been lowered
or a bunch of AMG ad-ons/low profile tires, sway bars, shocks etc.
to stiffen it up

& the Merc/Benz aren't cheap to work on
maybe in Germany they are, they aren't here
they sell cheap if they are 10 years old or older
(about the same as the C4s $10k-$15k but C4s climbing)
until you get to certain models or AMGs

the C4 Corvette are readily available/cheap (here anyway)
parts for the most part are cheaper
except for;
the ZR1 specific stuff/like the LT4 Lotus/Merc engines

I'm not a huge C4 fan at all, but I'd choose it
(too many silk shirt & gold chain wearing douches, drive them)
especially the ZR1 (or a grand sport) over the Benz
lots of them on weekend race circuits here now
must not be all bad

opinions are like ********, everyone has one
you'll get as many different views here, as there are posts

"buy what you like & who gives a rats *** what others think"
do what makes you happy

good luck with whatever you decide

 

[Michael_]

If you're regularly going on 500 mile trips, get yourself a Hellcat Dodge.

The Challenger is actually the only new (or slightly used) car i would consider buying. (If i had the money)
I was already driving the SRT 392 and Hellcat.
Personally i would get at least the 6.4 engine and widebody.

But as has been pointed out i don't have that kind of money.
I also wouldn't buy a car that depreciates in value.

Edit:

That said i would expect the 90 ZR-1 to run circles around the hellcat challenger when it comes to cornering/twisty roads?

I don't know how parts availability is in Germany for a ZR1 but I do know that parts for a Benz of pretty much any year are available especially in Germany.

You would think for the benz everything is available.
In fact when my blower motor went out i had to order from the states because nobody (including mercedes benz) had one in stock and i didn't want to replace it with a used one. So much for that.
Original mercedes parts are really expensive aswell.

The ZR-1 engine was designed by lotus (england), suspension parts from bilstein (germany) and transmission is from ZF (germany).
Most parts are interchangeable with the regular C4. Its not a problem to get Corvette or Mustang parts in germany.
So all in all i think it wont be so much worse than the mercedes. Maybe LT5 specific parts.

-----

5 out of 7 people voted for "Keep the 560 SEC".
If you share this opinion for reasons not yet mentioned please tell me your reasoning, thanks!

 

[MIKESPOLARA]

What's the best constant speed the 560 can do, 130ish? wih it's 239 horsepower

 

[Michael_]

What's the best constant speed the 560 can do, 130ish? wih it's 239 horsepower

140mph is no problem.
If you got a long straight and even road you can reach ~ 150mph (been there, done that) but that's really the maximum, not sure how long you can maintain that.

Edit:

I once tried to pursue a BMW 750il (e32, V12, 300hp)
Despite only 60hp difference and both heavy cars i had NO CHANCE.

All in all the Mercedes delivers good acceleration and top speed, i also find the steering to be pretty precise. The real problem is you feel the weight of the vehicle and (i know its the cliche for american cars but...) it feels somewhat like a boat. When the road isn't straight but makes a somewhat tighter turn everything over 110mph does not really feel safe to me. And that is where the 90 ZR-1 would come in handy...

 

[MIKESPOLARA]

Instead of posting this on the mercedes or corvette forum i figured it's better to ask here for unbiased advice.
Situation is the following...

We have a 1989 Mercedes 560SEC since about 8 years now.
It was used mainly as a weekend car, mostly highway miles and regularly serviced at mercedes benz.
Recently paid 5k at the dealership (mercedes benz), then switched to an independent shop specialised
in classic mercedes where another 5k was spent because mercedes did crappy work and was basically ripping us off.
Car got new camshafts, timing chain such as other stuff done.
After this major service we changed it over to historic plates which means cheap insurance & taxes.
The car is in turn key condition, i regularly drive it 500miles on the weekends with no problem.
Its not perfect though:
- Previous owner reimported the car from the united states back to stuttgart, germany (I live in germany. Good thing is this means lots of options & no rust)
- Has been repainted by the previous owner in germany (I was told pretty good but not perfect. Normal people seeing the car on the street wont notice)
- You can see some wear from the sun (I think the car came from california but need to check documentation again) mainly on the front seats and armrest
-- I got this "detailed/repaired" though and it looks good, but you can see it if you look close

Some pictures:
https://abload.de/img/img_1020w1krl.jpg
https://abload.de/img/img_1038x4kid.jpg
https://abload.de/img/img_0541bbj8u.jpg

So much for that.
We also have the 1969 Dodge Charger R/T that i bought last year and a 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (my very first car).
All those are pretty similar being luxury coupes with V8, RWD & automatic.
For my personal taste the mercedes is the least impressive of the bunch. Still a nice car, though.

Lately i'm craving for really good handling and acceleration, a real sports car.
If i had the money i would build a pro touring car out of the cutlass.
The level that i want (schwartz performance chassis & all) is WAY out of my (basically non existent) budget, though.

So the best i was able to find is the 1990 Corvette ZR-1. (It has to be a classic american car)
So now (for quite a while actually) i'm thinking about selling the 560SEC in order to buy a ZR-1.

I do not really want to sell the mercedes but i do not have the money & space for both.
I also think/fear its now or never looking at classic car prices lately and this one not yet exploded in value. (I think/fear it will soon)
Then there is politics and electric cars trying to kill the gasoline cars...

On the other hand i fear i could regret replacing the 560SEC with a ZR-1.
I know the ZR-1 is no imperial but i want to sit acceptably comfortable with enough legroom and not having backpain after every ride.
Note that i would take the ZR-1 for 500mile trips quite frequently.
That's what i want it for: Being able to cover wide distances as fast as possible on the german autobahn!

So what would you do?
Keep the mercedes or buy the ZR-1?
Also what is your opinion on comfort and future prices of both?

Probably for a little less then the cost of a nice ZR-1 you can modify the Charger to run on the autobahn all day long

 

[Michael_]

Probably for a little less then the cost of a nice ZR-1 you can modify the Charger to run on the autobahn all day long

I decided to keep the Charger stock. It's to nice to modify (Which is what i originally planned to do)
I also edited my last post in response to yours.

 

[MIKESPOLARA]

140mph is no problem.
If you got a long straight and even road you can reach ~ 150mph (been there, done that) but that's really the maximum, not sure how long you can maintain that.

Edit:

I once tried to pursue a BMW 750il (e32, V12, 300hp)
Despite only 60hp difference and both heavy cars i had NO CHANCE.

All in all the Mercedes delivers good acceleration and top speed, i also find the steering to be pretty precise. The real problem is you feel the weight of the vehicle and (i know its the cliche for american cars but...) it feels somewhat like a boat. When the road isn't straight but makes a somewhat tighter turn everything over 110mph does not really feel safe to me. And that is where the 90 ZR-1 would come in handy...

Makes a lot of sense. I guess you're not concerned about carrying passengers
Money aside, I would prefer the C8

 

[Michael_]

Makes a lot of sense. I guess you're not concerned about carrying passengers
Money aside, I would prefer the C8

No i'm not concerned about carrying passengers. I have the charger and the cutlass which both have backseats. The charger actually has great backseats with really sufficient legroom.
Nobody wants to sit in the 560 SEC backseats aka childseats anyway.
I once was carrying 5 people (including me) in the 560 SEC despite it only has 2 backseats (no bench). Its just not what you should be doing.

I find the specs of the upcoming C8 Z06 interesting but i do not like how the C8 looks in general. To much like modern ferraris.

The only thing thats really holding me back is that i have not yet driven a 90 ZR-1. (Or any C4)
I just fear i could instantly regret selling the 560 SEC because i do not like the ZR-1 at all. (And i can't buy the ZR-1 before selling the 560 SEC)
So the best thing would be testdriving a ZR-1. Then i would totally know which way to go.
But finding someone within reach that has a ZR-1 (for sale or not) and willing to let me testdrive it will be challenging... On top of that it's winter right now.

Another plus for the ZR-1 is the targa tops since i would like a convertible but have no money and room for it.