MP 509 versus modern cams

[RamNBee]

I am planning out my 440 build, and I keep seeing comments that the MP 509 isn't that great and that there are better cams out there. My question is, " What are the negatives of the 509? What makes the other cams better? " My plans are .030 over 440 with flat top pistons. Factory steel crank. Stealth heads with Harland Sharp rockers. M-1 intake with 850 dp. 727 with 10" convertor with 4.10 gears. Going in 67 Belvedere with racing seats, no back seat. Rear suspension will be Cal Tracs with stock leaves. Goal is mid 11's on drag radials. I know of two cars running low 11's with 509 cams. Not committed to 509 and am open to suggestions. I would prefer to stay with an hydraulic, but I know solid cams will make the power.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It's not a bad cam at all. People use it in applications where it is too big.......ALOT. That's where the misconception is. You really need 11.1 and up compression to run it. You can run it at lower compression, but it is not very efficient. It bleeds off a LOT of cylinder pressure. That's why some people are disappointed when they use it in a 8.5:1 engine. It also needs at least 4.10 gears and a 3000 stall to work good. Again, not real streetable.....but people have done it, including myself. I had a 12.1 360 in a 65 Valiant years ago with a hot 904, 3500 converter and 4.30 gears and ran the small block version, the 508. It was a mid 11 second street car. and I drove it everyday for near bout 4 years. It didnt get old to me, but to some it would. lol

 

[fatecaptured]

I have a new grind .509 purple (114 cl) cam in my 440 . 060 over with trw 2355f's and 452 heads. I also installed a 3800 t.a. converter. Rear gears are still undesided. I can tell you that mine idles high. If I set the idle any lower it stumbles on itself.

- - - Updated - - -

Idles at 1200 RPM

 

[johns]

I have the 509 in my 440 with Ported RPM heads and RPM manifold and to be fair it runs pretty good on the street. I`ve even got a standard converter in at the moment so when I do manage to get my new one in it should be one whole lot better. Havent taken it down the quarter yet though

 

[Budnicks]

I haven't run an old 0.509"/292* Purple-shaft cam, hell for probably 30 years now, the new "509 MP Purple-shaft" is supposedly much better than the original grind, that it was based on... But the camshaft in any engine, "it needs to be matched to your usage & specific engine combo needs", compression & valve to piston clearances, intended RPM range, matched valve size springs retainers locks, valve guide top clearances, rocker ratios, cylinder head flow, exhaust size & header tube length, type of induction, the weight of car, gears, converter etc., "no matter who's or what camshaft", that you end up choosing... or your just spinning your wheels so to speak, or giving up usable HP/TQ... Good luck

 

[MikeyT]

I have nothing against the 509, but at the same time, I am not tied to it as the "be all end all cam".. I really like your set up and think you will be happy with it. However since it is such a pain in the butt to change out, doing a cam swap is one of those do once live with it type thing. I would contact Dwayen Porter, at Porter racing in Vermont and have him grind you a cam... 802 951 1955. The price won't be that much more from buying one off the shelf cam. I absolutely loved the one in my mild 440 in my 69 bee. went 12.71 @ 109 with 1.9 short time, so it had penty to get me further into the 12's. The thing purred like kitten, you would even know what it did, until lining up next to it.

just my two wooden nickels

Good luck, soiunds like a fun build.

Mike



PSSSt...One more suggestion Manual valve body!

 

[383man]

I have nothing against the 509, but at the same time, I am not tied to it as the "be all end all cam".. I really like your set up and think you will be happy with it. However since it is such a pain in the butt to change out, doing a cam swap is one of those do once live with it type thing. I would contact Dwayen Porter, at Porter racing in Vermont and have him grind you a cam... 802 951 1955. The price won't be that much more from buying one off the shelf cam. I absolutely loved the one in my mild 440 in my 69 bee. went 12.71 @ 109 with 1.9 short time, so it had penty to get me further into the 12's. The thing purred like kitten, you would even know what it did, until lining up next to it.

just my two wooden nickels

Good luck, soiunds like a fun build.

Mike



PSSSt...One more suggestion Manual valve body!

Heck at 109 mph that good to run about 12.20's with good 60 ft imes. My old 383 Dart went 12.31 @ 110 with a not so good 60 ft. With 109 mph that an easy 12.40's car with just good hook. Ron

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I ran the .509 for a few thousand miles, and it is a good sounding/performing hydraulic camshaft when I was running 9.8:1CR, Performer RPM intake, stock 750DP, and Iron Heads. I would honestly look into a solid lifter camshaft from MP if you already have adjustable rocker arms. Idle was around 850-900RPM.

 

[lewtot184]

It's not a bad cam at all. People use it in applications where it is too big.......ALOT. That's where the misconception is. You really need 11.1 and up compression to run it. You can run it at lower compression, but it is not very efficient. It bleeds off a LOT of cylinder pressure. That's why some people are disappointed when they use it in a 8.5:1 engine. It also needs at least 4.10 gears and a 3000 stall to work good. Again, not real streetable.....but people have done it, including myself. I had a 12.1 360 in a 65 Valiant years ago with a hot 904, 3500 converter and 4.30 gears and ran the small block version, the 508. It was a mid 11 second street car. and I drove it everyday for near bout 4 years. It didnt get old to me, but to some it would. lol

in my opinion this pretty well nails it. the '509 is mopars version of the old racer brown ssh44, which is a lot of cam for hydraulic tappets. the newer, i believe, is based on a comp cams profile. either way big hydraulic cams suck. a solid is more forgiving and more tunable.

 

[67Satty]

I think they came up with the .509 cam back when most people were running stock iron heads because there was nothing else available. I think .510 is the magic lift number before you have to start making additional modifications in terms of retainer to guide clearance on stock heads. DAMHIK ($$$) So they came up with a .509 lift cam with lots of duration.

Since you have the better breathing Stealth heads that are also able to run bigger lifts, you have a lot more choices available for cams. Since you are running an adjustable valve train already, consider a solid lifter cam. Tests have shown that they will make 30 or so more HP as a hydro cam with comparable specs.

 

[RamNBee]

Thanks 67 Satty, things are at a stand still now. I just started a new job and have to save some cash. I am going to talk to Hughes and Comp cams before making a decision. Convertor choice will be a big factor also.