My 440 Build Your thoughts

[69superbee383]

Wanted to pick some of you mopar gurus brains on my 440 set up. Have always been happy with it but find myself lately wanting a bit more grunt. My set up is as follows
440 .030 over
9.5:1 compression
Ported 906 heads with 2.14/1.81 valves
Kb 184s
Mopar .484 108 centreline
Edelbrock performer Rpm
850 Holley Double pumper
Hooker 1” 7/8 headers
Running this in a 69 superbee 4 speed 3.55

I’ve been toying with the idea of a cam swap to something more modern to gain some low end. I wouldn’t say it’s a dog off the line but certainly doesn’t make tire melting torque under 2500 rpm. Anyone have any recommendations?

 

[Cojohnso1]

That sounds very similar to my '69 GTX. (But I'm running stock exhaust manifolds) it gets up and goes OK with its 4-speed and 355 Dana. But could definitely use more. Especially with today's power options. Because my 440 runs sound and exactly as a near stock 440 build would expect? I wouldn't consider building on it. Find a different block and build for an engine swap would be my highly recommended option. Besides, it opens far more option doors? Including a possible Hemi build?

 

[lewtot184]

just do a simple cam swap. something with a 110lsa or 112lsa. no big duration. something moderate like a comp cams 280/.480. you may need to look at fuel delivery and ignition curve. should be a tire fryer.

 

[69superbee383]

just do a simple cam swap. something with a 110lsa or 112lsa. no big duration. something moderate like a comp cams 280/.480. you may need to look at fuel delivery and ignition curve. should be a tire fryer.

Don’t get me wrong it’ll turn the tires but doesn’t go up in a pile of smoke like I think it would with some more low end.

 

[Cojohnso1]

Don’t get me wrong it’ll turn the tires but doesn’t go up in a pile of smoke like I think it would with some more low end.

I understand. My GTX is a highway commando with a little taller 28" tire in 15" rim with it 355 gear set will bury the 150 speedo at 6k RPM. Now is a 50+ year old speedometer and stock tach that accurate? Other calculations do indicate 140+ MPH. It's really amazing that a car that old floats so nice at those speeds. But in 1/4? Probably a low 14 sec. My 2014 twin turbo Cadillac XTS does pull on GTX for a faster 1/4 time. But a VERY pissed off 440 does run it down by 1/2 mile.

I too wish it was quicker thru the gears. Being my GTX has period correct 440, but is not numbers matching? I would favor an engine swap if more torque is desired.

 

[lewtot184]

i think i'd look at the ignition curve and fuel delivery first.

 

[PRHeads]

No mention of what the carb is.

I think the OP’s expectations might be a tad lofty for what a std trans street combo with modest gearing is going to behave like at under 2500rpm if it’s got any kind of cam in it.

If you cam for more bottom end, you’re likely going to give up a bit of upper rpm pull.

The fast rate stuff would theoretically give you both ends of the power band, but I’ve never had one where the lifters cooperated in the upper rpms.

If looking for more on the bottom, and not give up much(or any) up top....... I’d do a small-ish solid.

 

[69superbee383]

I understand. My GTX is a highway commando with a little taller 28" tire in 15" rim with it 355 gear set will bury the 150 speedo at 6k RPM. Now is a 50+ year old speedometer and stock tach that accurate? Other calculations do indicate 140+ MPH. It's really amazing that a car that old floats so nice at those speeds. But in 1/4? Probably a low 14 sec. My 2014 twin turbo Cadillac XTS does pull on GTX for a faster 1/4 time. But a VERY pissed off 440 does run it down by 1/2 mile.

I too wish it was quicker thru the gears. Being my GTX has period correct 440, but is not numbers matching? I would favor an engine swap if more torque is desired.

I do have a another 440 block that I’m beginning to prep for a stroker build but was planning on doing that over a period of time. In the short term I think my set up should be able to support in the 500 hp ball park and even more torque. Rolling away from a stop if I smash on it it will haze the tires into 2nd but I know there is more torque available not being utilized. The question is what’s holding it back I feel like the cam is to racey for low rpm personally but the distributor hasn’t been properly curved either so maybe there is something to gain there just a matter of how much. I’m running 22 initial and 34 total.

 

[PRHeads]

If track ET’s aren’t a factor in the cam choice, and you’re looking for a responsive, very drivable street cam.......and a solid isn’t in the cards...... I’d suggest the Crower 271HDP.

 

[69superbee383]

No mention of what the carb is.

I think the OP’s expectations might be a tad lofty for what a std trans street combo with modest gearing is going to behave like at under 2500rpm if it’s got any kind of cam in it.

If you cam for more bottom end, you’re likely going to give up a bit of upper rpm pull.

The fast rate stuff would theoretically give you both ends of the power band, but I’ve never had one where the lifters cooperated in the upper rpms.

If looking for more on the bottom, and not give up much(or any) up top....... I’d do a small-ish solid.

My mistake edited my original post

I am running a 850 Holley Double Pumper.

I have pretty reasonable expectations I think and like I said not disappointed with my current set up at all have run it for years and been happy just looking to dial it in and improve.

 

[69superbee383]

If track ET’s aren’t a factor in the cam choice, and you’re looking for a responsive, very drivable street cam.......and a solid isn’t in the cards...... I’d suggest the Crower 271HDP.

I snapped a couple motor mount ears off this block a couple years back now so won’t be seeing any track time as I fear with a hard launch and good traction the welded ears might not hold up. I will check that cam out right now thank you.

 

[PRHeads]

The motor would feel like a whole different beast with an auto trans and a 10” converter.
With the 4 speed the motor doesn’t get that head start on the load.
So, when you’re below the sweet spot in the powerband....... it’s not going to be super responsive.

 

[69superbee383]

The motor would feel like a whole different beast with an auto trans and a 10” converter.
With the 4 speed the motor doesn’t get that head start on the load.

Funny you say that good buddy of mine has the exact same build with a auto and you’re right with the high stall converter it is a fun drive!

 

[Cojohnso1]

In my opinion. One misses a lot of the muscle car experience with an automatic. Back in the day? Automatic transmission was for the ladies that had trouble pushing a stiffer clutch pedal.

 

[PRHeads]

I’m not advocating for an auto trans, I’m simply pointing out that certain combos can have totally different personalities, depending on what’s bolted on behind them.

The main reason I have the car I have is because it’s a 4 speed car.

 

[lewtot184]

In my opinion. One misses a lot of the muscle car experience with an automatic. Back in the day? Automatic transmission was for the ladies that had trouble pushing a stiffer clutch pedal.

automatics are excellent at leaking on the floor.

 

[BSB67]

Sure, a swap to a smaller cam will improve the low end.

But when I see a post like this, I aways wonder: is there more to be had with other adjustments? Is everything running right now? What else has been tried? What is the cranking cylinder pressure?

I would think that with some adjustments, your combo would be a tire shredder

 

[Cojohnso1]

automatics are excellent at leaking on the floor.

And are dangerous at the track. Even with a blanket. Should be outlawed from 64-71. Lol (I'm sure that campaign would go nowhere.)

 

[69superbee383]

Sure, a swap to a smaller cam will improve the low end.

But when I see a post like this, I aways wonder: is there more to be had with other adjustments? Is everything running right now? What else has been tried? What is the cranking cylinder pressure?

I would think that with some adjustments, your combo would be a tire shredder

I think you’re right no question still more on the table as is. As far as what I’ve done tuning wise I’ve swapped some accelerator pump squirters ,power valves and set initial and total timing and that would be it. I haven’t actually checked the cylinder pressures since it was new some years ago but 165 rings a bell?. Don’t anticipate that I’ve lost any or much as the car doesn’t see that much use and hasn’t suffered any power loss

 

[BSB67]

I snapped a couple motor mount ears off this block a couple years back now so won’t be seeing any track time as I fear with a hard launch and good traction the welded ears might not hold up. I will check that cam out right now thank you.

As a general rule, you should probably put a torque strap on it irrespective of compromised mounting lugs,