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No pressure to rear brakes 11" drums

Richard Cranium

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The game plan today was to flush the brake system (the new 69 Road Runner) with new fluid. We bled the front ones and started in with the rears, but no pressure. At that time, we noticed fluid seepage coming into the passenger compartment and fortunately, I had a couple of remanufactured OEM master cylinders in stock. Got the new one installed and bled the master cylinder on the car, but still no rear brake pressure (I have no idea whether this problem existed prior to today). This now leads me to believe that the problem is in the proportion valve block.

Thoughts?
 
Did you replace lines? How about the flex hose at the rear end? That hose can deteriorate and get plugged. Happened on my car. Did the brakes work before you started your project?
 
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No prop valve on that car, just a distribution block. Possibly the shuttle spool that activates the brake light is jammed to one side, but they usually recenter themselves.

..and what ^^^^ said, they have a habit of clogging at the hard line to flex coupling.
 
remove switch and check if centered
If not some times you can recenter with a blade screw driver just do not damage threads or seat for switch
Or try opening front blead screws and press brakes with a quick stab or
Crack front line on MC and if fluid crack line at block if fluid try out let of block and replace if no fluid
Good luck
 
Why did you start with the fronts? I've always bled in this order: passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front.
 
No prop valve on that car, just a distribution block. Possibly the shuttle spool that activates the brake light is jammed to one side, but they usually recenter themselves.

..and what ^^^^ said, they have a habit of clogging at the hard line to flex coupling.




As you know, this car has been sitting for quite some time & the original master cylinder had a ton of crud come out when I pulled the valve out of the bore. I cracked the rear line coming out of the block, applied brake pressure nd nothing, just a couple of drips. If it is the shuttle valve, is there anything that can be done to free it up?
 
remove switch and check if centered
If not some times you can recenter with a blade screw driver just do not damage threads or seat for switch
Or try opening front blead screws and press brakes with a quick stab or
Crack front line on MC and if fluid crack line at block if fluid try out let of block and replace if no fluid
Good luck


Having never taken one out before, how does one know what is in the right position of what's inside?
 
Went to bleed mine about 5 years ago and got nothing from the rear cylinders. Turned out to be a clogged flex hose. Replaced all hard lines with a stainless fine lines set, all flex hoses and wheel cylinders. Right after that I got a hissing from the booster at full travel. Had to have that rebuilt. Murphy struck again, but at least it should be good for many years.
 
The game plan today was to flush the brake system (the new 69 Road Runner) with new fluid. We bled the front ones and started in with the rears, but no pressure. At that time, we noticed fluid seepage coming into the passenger compartment and fortunately, I had a couple of remanufactured OEM master cylinders in stock. Got the new one installed and bled the master cylinder on the car, but still no rear brake pressure (I have no idea whether this problem existed prior to today). This now leads me to believe that the problem is in the proportion valve block.

Thoughts?
bleed the proportion valve after you tap it with brass hammer
 
First, when flushing an old dirty brake system, flush the system BEFORE you install the new components, calipers, wheel cylinders etc... Other wise if you install the parts before you flush it, the crud will go into the new components.
Second since brake fluid is hygroscopic and absorbs water, if the fluid has been in the lines more than a few years the lines have probably started to corrode internally. Like an old radiator or heater hose, you won't know if it is bad until it fails. Brake lines are so inexpensive and the brake system is The most important system on your car. It just make s sense to do it safely and do it right. For just a few hundred bucks total you can replace all hard and soft lines on your brake system.
To find your restriction, disconnect the lines from the master and the rear wheel cylinders and blow some compressed air from the master cylinder to the rear lines. If it blows clear, the problem is forward. If not you can disconnect one rear line at a time starting with the flex line at the differential.
When bleeding, Always start at the farthest point from the master ( Rebuilt master cylinders are notoriously unreliable, I always use new) and work toward the master cylinder. If you don't have a bleeder and are doing it manually by pumping the pedal, put some sort of block, 2 by 4 etc.. under the pedal between the floor. This will keep you from bottoming out the master cylinder piston when pumping the pedal. Bottoming the piston can/will cause internal damage to the M/C.
Always use fluid from a new/ sealed bottle. Once you open a bottle of DOT 3 fluid, it starts to absorb moisture which degrades the temperature rating of the fluid. If you make bake fluid changing part of your vehicles regular maintenance procedure like oil, coolant, transmission fluid changes you will enjoy many more years of trouble free service.
For those that didn't drive in the sixties or before, Fluid changes of all types were a constant maintenance item. Cars burned/leaked a lot of oil.
In the "old days" there were always displays/racks of oil right on the pump islands because it wasn't unusual to check and top off the oil at every fuel fill up. Todays cars are virtually consumer maintenance free with very little being user serviceable. The old lubricants and various fluid/grease seals were not as refined or made from the improved manufacturing/synthetics that we have today and were therefore more prone to rapid wear and premature contamination. Oil and transmission/gear oil changes were frequent. A was wheel bearing repacking. Most of these service were done 2-3 times a year and cars were riven much fewer miles than today.
Regardless of what the current manufacturers tell you, there are no "lifetime" fluids. We just live in a throw away society and are not encouraged to maintain anything. Just replace it if you have a problem is the attitude today.
Take care of your car and it will take care of you. Make sure to have the Factory Service Manual for your car and read/use it. M No magic to servicing your car.
 
Flex lines have separated in side and plugging the fluid from going to you wheel cylinder's. Normal thing to have happen on old flex line's. Use DOT 5 if possible. You would have to drain all the old fluid out not to mix it with the old stuff.
 
Start at the master and work your way to the rear. once you get no fluid you will know where your blockage is or bad part.
 
Well, I got the block opened and was able to move the shuttle valve & got it working properly. I tested it by removing the rear brake line & it did expel fluid. Connected everything back up and still no fluid coming out the rear. That problem turns out to be a collapsed brake hose. Time to order up all three.

Thanks for all your help!

:thumbsup:
 
Hind sight is 20/20 Mark... but next time before you start to do this. Drain the master, wipe it clean and then fill with fresh fluid. Probably where the trash came from in the master plunger..
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Your OCD is showing Mark

Are you really going to take that thing off the pedestal and drive it?
Oh the humanity!!!!:lol:

Oh, and please save all that date coded fluid.


Just razzing ya:rofl:
 
Well get that OE rebuilt and back in the car!! LOL

I lucked out and found a kit for my Bee master on Amazon for 30 bucks! Gotta slap myself.. no picture of the box's part number but I can get it if you'd like as I boxed up the old parts and it's either on the shop shelf or in the marine can.
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I'll clean it up & put it back in. Got to keep that originality with patina! I'll take that Raybestos part number when you get a chance.
 
Thinking about it now, I think I'm going to order up 4 wheel cylinder kits & take one apart tomorrow. If the master cylinder looks that bad, the wheel cylinders can't be that good either.
 
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