OH @#$%!!! Trans Leak At Throttle Shaft Seal! @#$%! @#$%!! @#$%!!!

Engine, Trans & Driveline

  1. Al K

    Al K Well-Known Member

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    Even after all that,I'm still not un-pissed.

    OK,gentlemen...How difficult is it to replace the throttle shaft seal on a Torqueflite? What was a very slight leak has turned into a @#$%ing gusher,and it looks like it's at the t.s. seal. The manual really isn't thorough in its explanation,so I figured I'd come to the experts-you cats! Looking at it,it seems that the filter and valve body(and the pan as well-duh...)need to be removed and that the seal gets pushed out from the inside of the case and the new one goes in the same way. Any special tips or advice,folks? Things ain't going so good right now,and I may even be in a position to sell the car. Yeah,shit be @#$%ed up. I could really use to fix this so I can focus on the charging system issues and now a rough-running motor as well.

    Sometimes,when it rains,it bloody pours. I know this crap is a test because I quit smoking 4 months ago.

    ...Oh,as always,THANK YOU!!!
     
  2. Funship32

    Funship32 Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong but I think they just covered something like this in the latest issue of Mopar Action.
     
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    • furyus

      furyus Well-Known Member

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      When I replace them, I drop the pan, pull the valve body, and tap it out with a small hammer and screwdriver. Putting it in is more challenging. It goes in from the top. No room to tap it in, so I get some all thread and two large washers. Put the seal in position, then put the all thread through with a washer on top and bottom. Tighten the nuts, and slowly pull the seal in place. I think there is also a small O ring on the Valve body where the kick down lever goes. That can be pulled out with a pick and a new one put in.
       
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      • Garys1969RR

        Garys1969RR Well-Known Member

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        Are you replacing the throttle shaft seal, or the shift lever seal cause they are different. I replaced the shift lever shaft seal as outlined above, and no leaks. You have to get the top of the trans VERY CLEAN before installing the new seal.
         
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        • Meep-Meep

          Meep-Meep дворянин

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          The throttle shaft seal if I recall is a small lip seal held in place by a washer and clip. The shift selector and TS are a coaxial arrangement so the seal is pretty small. You may also want to check the fit between the shaft and the bore it rides in because if it's too loose a new seal won't do much good. A common problem with the flite is the selector lever gets loose in the valve body and the movement exceeds the capability of the selector shaft seal. Perhaps the same thing is going on with the TP lever. To change it all you have to do is pull the valve body, so not a huge deal. But I understand the @@@#$%^&*!!!!
           
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          • Funship32

            Funship32 Well-Known Member

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            In checking my MA mag, this is almost to a tee what they recommended doing.
             
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            • Al K

              Al K Well-Known Member

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              Funship;I'll hit a bookstore and look for that issue. I talked with the guy that rebuilt the trans a few years ago(but did not replace that seal,as it wasn't needed then) and he also told me about the throttle shaft seal,and the fun in removing the clip and seal. Looks like I may have to remove the header on that side as well for easier access. It most certainly looks like the seal under the lever that's attached to the rod that runs up to the carb linkage.

              Our local "Back To The Bricks" event is going on next week,and I plan on having my arse out there,not in the garage messin' with this.
               
            • Al K

              Al K Well-Known Member

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              Hello again. Damn,has it been a year? Well,the car has pretty much sat since then;other stuff took precedence. Back to the issue at hand.

              The seal that needs replacing is a small rubber seal(that's what I got at my local auto part store;these guys are a local outfit and are knowledgeable and helpful) rather than the outer metal ring/inner seal(with retaining spring) style It's up on ramps,but still difficult to see what-in-the-bad-word I'm doing. I may have to remove the header to get at the nut/bolt on the lever-I'm hoping not. It looks like I'll need to drop the pan and valve body to pull the shaft down and for access to the old seal. Am I correct? There is NOTHING in the manual(I have both an original and the repro "expanded" version) in regards to the replacement of this seal. Not one bloody thing.

              This is the seal I received;ATP TO-29. Looks like the correct piece for mine;looks like it's for a small shaft. I'm pretty sure the trans is a '64 unit,if that's of any help.

              009_zpsf4cc51c5.jpg
              007_zpsdb9762ea.jpg
              006_zps2b898714.jpg

              As always-thank you.
               
              Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
            • Garys1969RR

              Garys1969RR Well-Known Member

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              Drain the fluid, pull the pan, remove the valve body and put it on the bench. From there its easy to change the seal that goes between the kickdown lever shaft and the shifter shaft. One fits inside the other. From your description, you need to change the smaller inner seal. I am not sure which one you have showing in your pictures, but the inner one is pretty small.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Looks like you may have the correct one. Maybe some one else on here can verify that.
               
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              • Al K

                Al K Well-Known Member

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                Thanks,Gary. Wasn't aware of another seal-an outer one,from what you describe. There's nothing in the manual about replacing this(WTF?),so I'm asking the crew here: Anyone have a diagram/picture/breakdown to show me(and anyone else) what being dealt with here?

                Oh,Gary,the seal is about 1/2" wide.
                 
              • resq302

                resq302 Well-Known Member

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                We had the same problem but ours ended up being a groove worn into the gear shaft for the valve body. They make a retro seal that utilizes two o rings with an aluminum spacer.
                 
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                • Al K

                  Al K Well-Known Member

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                  OK,the valve body is ready to come out. Hanging up on something;perhaps the shaft not wanting to come out of the seal. Didn't want to force it;I'll deal with it tomorrow. As far as that;the little black seal pictured looks like the correct piece for this application. I'll let you know how the replacement goes-might create some new compound cusswords!

                  Now,the other issue...

                  001_zps9a5e3d62.jpg
                  002_zpsb6dceca3.jpg
                  003_zps631b9324.jpg

                  The one on the left is the one I pulled,the one on the right is the one I purchased. Wix #58658. Any potential issues? Is the black pad necessary? Did I get the wrong shit?
                   
                  Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
                • sleepar

                  sleepar Well-Known Member

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                  with out pulling the pan... i have used some 400 grit sand paper to clean up the shaft surfaces and usually both seals when im there.... you can remove the old seals with a cotter pin extractor and use deep socket to set it in there the small one is harder to pick out and a piece of fuel line cut square and smoot from burs presses it in... once the levers and everything is clean.... but this is not how they do it in mopar monthy so kindly disregard the above statement.... the first reply is always better.....
                   
                • Garys1969RR

                  Garys1969RR Well-Known Member

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                  Looks like the correct filter. The black pad must be some kind of gasket. Not sure if the gasket is needed. I have replaced a few, but don't recall a gasket being in there. Some one on here should know.
                   
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                  • Al K

                    Al K Well-Known Member

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                    Thanks,Gary. That black pad is thicker than a gasket though;that why I wondered. Going back at it this morning.
                     
                  • Al K

                    Al K Well-Known Member

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                    Alright then...the valve body is out;not the PITA I had expected. Here's the old seal and a new one;yeah;it's a leaker for sure. Now to the install and reassembly.

                    007_zps776a1512.jpg

                    I've saved all sorts of rubber seals that have come my way;I've looked at a couple as potential substitutes that may seal better to deal with the movement of the shaft. Just looking at that possibility;I know how trying to "improve" upon something can become a fustercluck. I don't like fusterclucks any more than you guys. I'll let you know what transpires.
                     
                  • resq302

                    resq302 Well-Known Member

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                    This was the aftermarket thing that we installed due to the selector shaft having a groove worn into it. No leaks now!

                    IMG_0010-1.jpg

                    IMG_0011-1.jpg
                     
                  • Al K

                    Al K Well-Known Member

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                    ...I'm back...

                    After finding a metric to standard conversion chart(my 1/4' drive torque wrench is calibrated in Kg-cm) I'm ready to tighten the valve body. It went back in relatively easy,but pushed the seal out. I slid it back down the shaft(ooh baby,ooh baby...)and back into place. Yes,I did remember to put the spring back in... Time to reassemble and replace the pan and fill it and...start it up and see what happens. Wish me luck;mine ain't been too good lately and I really,no,REALLY need some things to go right. This is a major thing for me.

                    Well,it all went back together;I've still got to add fluid and re-attach the plug wires. I've got a Trivia Night to attend to with some of my former Lab Rats;that takes precedence. Besides,I still want to grease the front suspension and make the left side exhaust pipe a bit more secure. I'll let you cats know tomorrow what happened,after this stuff is completed. Oh,I did use the correct seal;just put a small rubber ring above it and below the washer. I held the lever down while I tightened it;hopefully there will be enough(but not too much) pressure to aid in the sealing process. We'll see...

                    Resq302;thanks. If that goes bad,I'll know what to get.
                     
                  • resq302

                    resq302 Well-Known Member

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                    You shouldn't need the rubber o ring and washer. The one in our car was untouched original and it did not have that.
                     
                  • Al K

                    Al K Well-Known Member

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                    Resq302;this year trans had the washer(a thick one) under the shaft lever;it's even mentioned in the manual. The "o-ring" I added was just placed over the shaft,then the washer and lever over that. I added it to just retain and keep some pressure on the seal.
                     
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