Phosphoric inside frame?

[icetech]

So, i'm cleaning rust/replacing bad metal in my 62 right now and while my shackle boxes are a disaster (getting better though) My frame rails from the outside are very solid, no holes found yet but that will prolly change. After seeing how bad the shackle boxes were inside i want to try to save my frame and being a michigan car i'm sure it's not pretty in there.. I know eastwood makes their long hose encapsulater stuff but i can't get into the frame to clean any scale out, i was thinking of using a pump up bug sprayer and soaking down the inside of the frame with phosphorous acid which is supposed to convert rust into an inert black coating. My thought was soak it well so it gets in the scale and anything in there, at worst drill a hole every few feet, soak it then weld/grind. Just want to keep this from turning into a mess in a few years although the car will probably never see rain/salt again i would like to be as prepared as possible.

Thanks guys, and i know i have been posting a lot of questions lately, sorry.. but gotta learn somehow

P.S. if i have read right, phosphoric doesn't need to be neutralized after usage like other acids? Would suck to dissolve the frame from the inside

 

[hunt2elk]

Phosphoric acid is some good stuff for removing rust, but it definitely has to be neutralized.

 

[493 Mike]

Hammer on the frame sides to rattle loose that scale and blow it out. Then use the encapsulator spray.
Mike

 

[icetech]

Hammer on the frame sides to rattle loose that scale and blow it out. Then use the encapsulator spray.
Mike

Problem is i didn't see anywhere in the rear frame to blow it out of.. will look again.. (and glad i bought hearing protection, i didn't think of just knocking it loose

 

[icetech]

Phosphoric acid is some good stuff for removing rust, but it definitely has to be neutralized.

well pewp... still picked up a gallon today, will use it on brackets and control arms and all the little stuff then

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Phosphoric acid does react to form black, iron phosphate. I suggest maybe using about 15% or so? 75%-85% will definitely start to dissolves the steel. I also recommend baking soda and water to neutralize it after about an hour or so.... OR tons and tons of water will work too.

 

[icetech]

Phosphoric acid does react to form black, iron phosphate. I suggest maybe using about 15% or so? 75%-85% will definitely start to dissolves the steel. I also recommend baking soda and water to neutralize it after about an hour or so.... OR tons and tons of water will work too.

This is i think 20%ish, it's the klean strip concrete prep ($15 a gallon instead of 60) I have read both the once it's out of rust to eat it just dries up and doesn't react to steel, including a guy that left some pliers in it for a year cause he forgot and no issue... The problem is the rear frame and one of the rear channels i want to do are very closed in and spraying water in there isn't what i want to do.. sooo hating rust right now

 

[Bighouse]

I used the klean strip concrete prep and had great results. Took some time. I kept it wet and flushed real well. Anything you do it better than nothing.

 

[gkent]

but it definitely has to be neutralized.

The solution ONLY attacks rust - not bare metal. The phosphorous residue is the "protectant" - not to be rinsed off. If you're painting the metal then yes, it has to be wiped down. As you can see from the heavy pitting in the brackets the rust was extremely heavy. The bracket on the left was soaked - probably for a couple days - then left to dry which left a powdery coating. This was done a few years ago and the piece has been handled often since, rubbing off most of the powdery finish but it still displays no surface rusting. This stuff beats the hell out of all the other "snake oils" on the market and the REAL bonus (for me anyway) is that A) its made locally and B) its UNDER $20 a gallon !!!

 

[icetech]

The solution ONLY attacks rust - not bare metal. The phosphorous residue is the "protectant" - not to be rinsed off. If you're painting the metal then yes, it has to be wiped down. As you can see from the heavy pitting in the brackets the rust was extremely heavy. The bracket on the left was soaked - probably for a couple days - then left to dry which left a powdery coating. This was done a few years ago and the piece has been handled often since, rubbing off most of the powdery finish but it still displays no surface rusting. This stuff beats the hell out of all the other "snake oils" on the market and the REAL bonus (for me anyway) is that A) its made locally and B) its UNDER $20 a gallon !!!

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I don't think that's phosphoric acid though, that looks more like a rust remover, the acid leaves any rust spots gloss black.. BUT i want a couple of gallons of that stuff.. sick of seeing $60 a gallon for like evaporust.

P.S. i have a friend that goes up to Grimsly (sp?) near niagra every couple of weeks, do you know if it can be bought in that area? or who sells it?

 

[gkent]

This IS a rust remover - why would you want to "convert" rust when you can completely remove it ?!? I have used this stuff in my shop and then left parts sitting for three years or more with no sign of rust returning. I think the way it works is any humidity reactivates the phosphoric residue to prevent oxidation. As long as you don't rinse the parts the phosphoric will continue to protect the metal but once its rinsed off the protection is gone and the metal can again oxidize.

PM me and I'll give you all the info. If he crosses at Windsor or Sarnia he'd be driving right by the place.

 

[icetech]

This IS a rust remover - why would you want to "convert" rust when you can completely remove it ?!? I have used this stuff in my shop and then left parts sitting for three years or more with no sign of rust returning. I think the way it works is any humidity reactivates the phosphoric residue to prevent oxidation. As long as you don't rinse the parts the phosphoric will continue to protect the metal but once its rinsed off the protection is gone and the metal can again oxidize.

PM me and I'll give you all the info. If he crosses at Windsor or Sarnia he'd be driving right by the place.

That's awesome, she does cross at Sarnia And the phosphorous can be brushed on, no soaking.. i'm sure thye work the same.. with the way this project is going though i can never have too many tools to remove rust thanks!

 

[gkent]

That's awesome, she does cross at Sarnia And the phosphorous can be brushed on, no soaking.. i'm sure thye work the same.. with the way this project is going though i can never have too many tools to remove rust thanks!

The stuff is water thin so if you brush or spray it on you have to keep the surface wet. Soaking parts in a tub is certainly the best way. Scrubbing the parts speeds up the process but isn’t necessary. If you have a heavily rusted panel you’d want to keep at it but light surface rust can be brushed or sprayed and left alone. If the part did dry before all the rust is gone its no big deal, just wet it again.