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Picked up a low mile 440 today.

BeepBeepRR

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I picked up the engine and trans combo today for a few bucks. I intend on doing something with it. Its a 78 440 out of an RV so I know its not a HP monster.

Basically I just want to build this engine with budget in mind and get it closer to the 69 hp 440 Horsepower and Torque specifications. I know in 78 these things were smog robbed. What would it take to make this a decent engine. Heads,intake, cam, lifters and new rocker arms?
As far as the bottom end how much of a difference is there between a say 69 to 78 440 in terms of bore and stroke?

I know the transmission is basically junk behind the main case and that will be removed so I can take the original roadrunner transmission and make one good one with both.

The cool thing is all the electronic ignition stuff is mounted on the engine. And everything is still in tact other than the distributor cap is broken.

It was cold as tits out today so I did all I could to just get it into the truck. Once I get it off the truck and start tearing it down I will get better photos. This engine is supposed to be 47k engine.. But looks like it did all of those miles being dragged behind a tractor. :)

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When you say budget, how much is in the budget?
If you have a shop rebuild the heads, overhaul rods with arp bolts, turn the crank, bore,deck, line hone the block and balance rotating assembly
You add forged Pistons moly rings, cam, rod main bearings, gasket kit, cam/lifters timing chain, distributor drive bushing, oil pump, heat crossover blocked valley pan, wind age tray, aluminum intake, and carb.
You do all the assembly with reusing your rockers maybe looking at best case $3500.
May also need to replace valve springs to match cam. Plus you're working with a cast crank. Cast cranks aren't awful just if you had the option forged is better.

Then go to 440 source get a rotating assembly balanced for $2200 the you just cut the above list way down. you will need a zero balance harmonic balancer and take the weights off of your current torque converter.

If you just want to re-ring your existing engine. Then you need rings, bearings, gaskets, freeze plugs, oil pump(if yours is worn out) and elbow grease.
Search out closed chamber heads steel head shim gaskets and a cam suitable to your compression ratio. Maybe in the 8-1 to 8.5-1 range. You can ruin this with the wrong cam. So go with a roadrunner purple cam or smaller. Or the first level of performance Hughes cam.

With a 727 you'll want to use the wide ring gear 10-3/4" factory torque converter.
Keep us updated!

Did you really put that 440 in the back of a F250? Will let you slide this time. You may get tarred and feathered if it happens again!
 
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Good score. The only real "smog robbed" things about that engine would be low compression pistons, smaller camshaft really....oh yeah, and the "lean burn" ignition IF you even have it on a RV. Strength-wise, it has a cast crankshaft which is OK up to maybe 500-600 horsepower (not that bad). Your heads are good "stock ones" since the valve seats are already hardened. You probably have a thermoquad carb on it which is good in my opinion.

For a street car, just rebuild it with higher compression pistons & a bigger cam/springs...DONE. If it's a street/strip or you want to run some nitrous on it, then maybe find a stock steel crank too (& associated parts) and spend another $2000 for aluminum heads.
 
If you just want to re-ring your existing engine. Then you need rings, bearings, gaskets, freeze plugs oil pump(if yours is worn out) and elbow grease.
Search out closed chamber heads steel head shim gaskets and a cam suitable to your compression ratio. Maybe in the 8-1 to 8.5-1 range. You can ruin this with the wrong cam. So go with a roadrunner purple cam or smaller. Or the first level of performance Hughes cam.
[/QUOTE]

727 makes a great point. If you don't have a ton of cash, find some closed chamber heads & thin head gaskets (to increase compression), re-ring the engine and add a cam. That would make a really good street motor with good power
 
I'm pretty sure you'll want to go with a different ignition system as well.
 
I'm sure it will get different ignition since who knows how long this thing sat on the trailer it was on. I'm assuming all of the electronics are shot. If its warm enough out tomorrow I will get it hooked onto the engine stand and start tearing into it so I can see what heads it has on it. Really interested to see how the cylinder walls look. I will get some pictures as I rip its guts out. Hopefully for what I paid for it i didn't get too badly burned. I already have the ignition I swapped out of the roadrunner. Pretty much just the distributor and coil. I may be looking for a cheap intake soon for it. All I have is a 383 cast iron intake that isn't any better than what is on it now. Not to mention it wouldn't work on top of that. There was no carb so I will have to stick the edelbrock on it at some point. Since I don't want to waste money if the engine is trash. I do have a rebuild kit for the edelbrock and a tuning kit as well.
 
Did you really put that 440 in the back of a F250? Will let you slide this time. You may get tarred and feathered if it happens again!

It was either a F250 or stick it in the back of my chevy work truck.. Didnt have much of a choice.. My truck is a V6 soo no power there.

The plan is to build it as I can afford to buy parts. Its not something I have to get together next week or even next month. Just as I get around to doing it. I already have another 383 HP 69 date coded. But Its in my neighbors garage and Im waiting on him to get around to getting it out for me. I have his stroked 400 in my garage as collateral.. :) BTW how the hell did you know it was a F250? Is there a drone over my house? Should I break out my tinfoil hat.
 
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I have a 2000 f250. Was just busting your chops!
 
That cam looks ok for a 8.5-1 440.
Better to call Hughes and ask their opinion. I think Hughes wants you to use their springs and adjustable rockers. Even on a hydraulic cam. All I can say is Hughes cams deliver as promised.

MP Purple cams have become expensive.

Comp cams are reasonably priced( I have not used them) they seem to have a large cheering section. Not sure on which one of comp's line would work for you.
 
I would probably just buy a whole setup lifters,cam, etc etc I will look into it more soon. I did see they sell a whole top end kit for 2200 bucks which includes pistons. But I really need to open the thing up before I start spending money.
 
So I need to be looking for some 915 heads. I did read about 906 heads which may be what are on this pig. Only difference in the two is the 906 flowed better at lower RPMs for smog control. But in the upper RPM range they flowed pretty much the same. I'm just quoting another page. This was a Dick Landy article.

915 being closed chamber
906 being open chamber.

Also thinking about this setup. Let me know what you think.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=search&search=whiplash&partid=31307

Also was reading this thread.. on another forum about RV engines.. This is very useful to get some HP out of the pig. Without messing with the bottom end.



Posts: 1,909



Re: Doing a little dyno testing on a low compression 440.

« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2013, 08:34:33 AM »
Okay, I'll take a stab at it.

Test 1; low mileage, running, smog era 440, $500, $100 for summit cam, $100 for a swap meet 650 carb, $700 for 272 hp

Test 2, swap meet headers $80, $780 for 287hp, or $80 for 15 peak hp gain

Test 3, swap meet 750 carb $100, $780 for 297 hp, or no difference from test 2.

Test 4, M1 single plane, $260 new, I rarely ever see these at swaps, $1040 for 312 hp, or $340 for 40 hp gain.

Test 5, add .509 cam, $210 new, $1250 for 362 hp, we are at $550 for 90 hp gain.

Test 6, 850 Demon and spacer, $700 new, but you might be able to score these at a swap meet for $500, $1750 for 387 hp, or $1050 for 115 hp gain.

Test 7, ported heads, lets say $1500 for a set if you pay for porting, $3250 for 449 hp, or $2250 for 177 hp gain.
Alternatively, if you have access to the heads already and do your own porting, $1750 for 449 hp, or $1050 for 177 hp gain.

So the heads are a big variable. One way is on par with the nitrous shot, one way is twice that. Both ways do not require regular bottle refills.

I also suspect the choice of components testing was due to what's on hand, which means some guys could duplicate this for maybe a few hundred bucks with their junk on hand.
 
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I am doing this very same build right now. Here is my parts list so far.

I am using the stock cast crank and LY rods, new bearings with ARP bolts for strength and peace of mind.
ProMaxx 9440 heads - Summit has them for 1,075.00 a set. I was lucky and found a barely used set for $800
SpeedPro L2355F piston set w/moly rings.
Comp cams SK21-227-4 kit.
Comp cams Pro Magnum adjustable roller rockers. (You will need either adjustable rockers or push rods for the aftermarket heads).
Edelbrock 7193 Perfomer RPM intake. I bought the kit that includes the timing set from Jegs.
B&M balanced flexplate #10237

My goal was to get 10:1 compression and make around 500hp. I chose the aftermarket heads because by the time I found/purchased 915 heads and had them rebuilt I was in it for the same money.

Hope this info helps.
 
How much do you have invested in the entire build if you don't mind me asking. I'm just trying to see where I need to be money wise. I know the bigger and most costly will be the heads..
 
I'll work up a price list for you and PM it to you. Will be tomorrow because it's already past my bed time :eek:
 
Keep in mind this is a budget build. I mean as cheap as I can go.. But wondered if anyone has used these proform branded rockers.. They are cheap and might be as good as they are cheap. HERE These are on ebay.. But they fit the budget.
 
The pro form rockers don't use needle bearings which is good. On the flip side they aren't bushed where they contact the shaft which may wear fast for street use.
You can get 516 heads on the cheap. Buy 1.74" exhaust valves for $100. Need spring of choice to match your cam. Have the machine shop bowl out the exhaust port when installing the new valves. As a side note: close chamber heads don't have a lot of material in the exhaust seat area which scares machinist when you ask for hardened seats. Just keep the original seats and add the lead additive and they will last.
Call Aero-head to see if they have some closed chamber heads available.
If you had to go in $800 for a set of overhauled close chamber heads. You may as well order some new aluminum heads for $1000. So only do 915 or 516's if you can find a deal.
 
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